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Jab's He-Builds: Bow, She-Ra, Swift Wind, Tri-Klops, Mer-Man

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Re: Jab's Builds: Joes, Tapirs, Battleaxe, Impala, The Porcupine

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Image

SNAPDRAGON (Sheoke Sanada)
Created By:
Ralph Macchio & George Perez
First Appearance: Marvel Fanfare #12 (Jan. 1984)
Role: Martial Artist, Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: Various Villains' Employ
PL 8 (112)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+12)
Athletics 5 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+12)
Close Combat (Bo Staff) 1 (+12)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+7)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 5 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Bolas) 4 (+12)
Sleight of Hand 6 (+6)
Stealth 1 (+7)
Technology 1 (+2)
Vehicles 2 (+2)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Equipment 4, Evasion, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Disarm, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 8, Startle

Equipment:
"Armour" Protection 2 (2)
"Visor" Senses 1 (Infravision) (1)
"Bolas" Snare 5 (15) -- (17)
    AE: "Sword" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical) (4)
    AE: "Bo Staff" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach 2) (4)
Powers:
"Martial Arts Prowess" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Bo Staff +11 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Sword +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3 (+5 Armour), Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Snapdragon is a relatively-simple mercenary.
Enemy (Diamondback)- Snapdragon was wronged by Rachel Leighton somehow when the two were just trainees of The Taskmaster, and she is devoted to revenge. She attempted to murder Rachel by beating her unconscious and then throwing her off a Cruise Liner.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 23 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 14 (112)

-Snapdragon debuted in an old Marvel Fanfare issue as a temporary threat for the Black Widow, but she vanished thereafter. Mark Gruenwald, seeing a concept going to waste, brought her in as part of his "Superia Stratagem" storyline in Cap's book, and invented some backstory where Diamondback wronged her, and Snappy killed her in response, throwing her into the ocean, where she drowned. Thankfully, doctors were able to revive Rachel, but it set off a storyline where she retired in fear, and the other members of B.A.D. Girls, Inc. tried to hunt Snapdragon down. Eventually, it was Rachel herself who did the deed, taunting Snapdragon, challenging her to a rematch, and (in a fit of rage brought on by her kidnapping/training by Crossbones and an infusion of Captain America's blood) choked the life out of Snapdragon. This set off ANOTHER storyline, where Rae is forced to come to terms with being a murderer.

-Snapdragon is a really good martial artist, being PL 7.5 unarmed fighter, and PL 8 with a Sword or Bo. This makes her more than a match for weaker types like Diamondback (especially unarmed), and she has a win over Black Widow (but keep in mind that Natasha was a WEAKLING up until about 2000 as far as "Bad-Ass Feats" went, jobbing to just about anybody), but she'd lose to more heavy-duty guys. Just a standard martial arts build, with some extra Strength-Damage for her martial arts prowess (I don't see her lifting over 200 lbs. easily, but she should be able to do some more damage).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Joes, Tapirs, Battleaxe, Impala, The Porcupine

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:06 pm

Image

TAGAK THE LEOPARD LORD
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Gene Colan
First Appearance: Daredevil #72 (Jan. 1971)
Role: Forgotten Supporting Character
Group Affiliations: Tagak's Realm (Royalty)
PL 7 (122)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+10)
Athletics 5 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Expertise (Hunter/Tracker) 8 (+10)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Investigation 6 (+8)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 3 (+8)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Evasion, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Grab Finesse, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Hold, Improved Trip, Instant Up, Prone Fighting, Sidekick 18 (Opar), Startle

Powers:
"Bonded to Opar" Senses 1 (Mental Link- Opar) [1]

"Brother-in-Sight" Remote Sensing (Visual) 6 (1/2 mile) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Simultaneous +0) (Flaws: Medium- Opar -2) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +4, Fortitude +7, Will +5

Complications:
Disabled (Blind)- Without the immediate presence of his chosen Leopard, Tagak will become blind.
Responsibility (Police Officer)- Tagak's job is to catch felons.
Relationship (Opal)- Tagak is bonded to his Leopard.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 34 / Powers: 5 / Defenses: 12 (122)

OPAR
Role:
Sidekick
PL 7 (88)- Sidekick Rank 18
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -4 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+8)
Athletics 6 (+10)
Expertise (Survival) 7 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+4)
Perception 7 (+8)
Stealth 3 (+8)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Natural Weapons), Improved Hold, Improved Initiative, Prone Fighting, Seize Initiative, Uncanny Dodge (Hearing)

Powers:
"Animal Senses" Senses 5 (Low-Light Vision, Acute & Extended Scent, Extended & Ultra-Hearing) [5]
Speed 3 (16 mph) [3]
"Natural Weapons- Claws & Teeth" Strength-Damage +2 [2]

"Cat Agility"
"Climbing Skills" Enhanced Skills 8: Athletics 8 (+14) (Flaws: Limited to Climbing) [2]
Leaping 2 [2]

"Spotted Coat" Enhanced Skills 4: Stealth 4 (+12) (Flaws: Limited to Dense plants or undergrowth) [1]

"Brother-in-Sight" Senses 1 (Mental Link- Tagak) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Claws & Teeth +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Disabled (Animal)- Cats cannot speak to humans, nor use their paws to easily manipulate objects.

Total: Abilities: 32 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 16 / Defenses: 13 (88)


-Seriously, Gerry Conway & Gene Colan working on a book, and THIS is the type of guy they came up with? Man, drugs must have been handed around the Marvel offices like CANDY at this point... Tagak is the "Lord of the Leopards", and comes from dimension where everyone is blind (fitting for a Daredevil supporting character, but seriously- isn't it BIZARRE based off of what DD's book eventually became that he was once fighting interdimensional policemen?), but becomes "Brothers-in-Sight" with the big cats of their world. He's got the kind of outfit only a blind man could come up with, a Leopard Buddy (which actually got shot and apparently killed in his second issue, rendering Tagak blind), fought DD in a classic "mistaken identity/assumptions" thing, but then "got his man" (he was hunting some dude) and returned home. Curiously, he joined a makeshift "Defenders" team for a bit in some joke issues of that book, hoping to fight crime, but ended up just fighting muggers, and so the whole group quit. Why he was on Earth just doing standard hero junk I have NO idea (maybe the writer didn't realize his full origin?), but that was the last we ever saw of him, and that was over twenty years ago. He was last-mentioned in a "Civil War" report as a "undetermined" guy. Pretty classic "this writer was on drugs, this character sucked, and since he's not a villain there was no reason to ever use him again" kind of thing.

-I was thinking about PL 8, but no- this guy's the equivalent of a forgotten Scourge victim, but as a super-hero, so he's a PL 7 Melee Fighter type who's fairly accurate and has a lot of Advantages (enough to make him PL 8-level pricey). Most of it comes from a powerful Sidekick, a full-on Leopard that it's implied could totally beat the hell out of DD (it's very odd in most comics that Big Cats are HUGE threats to super-heroes like Daredevil & Batman, who don't have powers, but that normal humans with guns can easily kill them, but said heroes can easily defeat men with guns), but Tagak can also use Remote Sensing on the kitty. Using your own senses Simultaneously with Remote Sensing is normally an Extra, but since Tagak CANNOT see, I figured I'd make it a +0 thing, and just leave the rest as a Complication. He's also got a Mental Link in there. PL 7 isn't much, but since Daredevil was probably a PL 8 at-best until 1983 or so, it doesn't make him a total pushover in the old Street Level days.
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Re: Jab's Builds: G.I. Joe Builds Done, Animals- TAPIRS

Postby Unbeliever » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:20 pm

luketheduke86 wrote:
Jabroniville wrote:Image

THE PORCUPINE (Alexander Gentry)

Wow...just...wow...

A couple of questions comes to mind. First off, why would you base your battle-suit on a porcupine? And second, after choosing a porcupine why would you then color it yellow?!?

I always had a soft spot for the Porcupine. Maybe from owning that Marvel Guide to the Dead or something. It doesn't take much to be at the top of *that* heap in a kid's esteem.

Although I think the Manticore character from Crooks or what have you is just him done better ...

Now, if only myself and my other GMs would use jobbers. I tend to stray towards the tougher rather than weaker enemies.
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Re: Jab's Builds: The Porcupine, Talisman, Snapdragon,Tagak

Postby Horsenhero » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:58 am

I love jobbers. Hordes of one-note or versatile but relatively weak enemies to throw at heroes, so the heroes can strut their stuff, pounding the pudding out of villains that outnumber them 2 to 1. Then Graviton shows up and despite his not being a brilliant schemer or anything, his raw power mops the floor with the heroes.

There's nothing as satisfying as building up a heroes' self-esteem...so you can crush it ruthlessly. :twisted:
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Re: Jab's Builds: The Porcupine, Talisman, Snapdragon,Tagak

Postby Jabroniville » Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:54 pm

Image

Just pure, undiluted Giant Jobber.

THE ARMADILLO (Antonio Rodriguez)
Created By:
Mark Gruenwald & Paul Neary
First Appearance: Captain America #308 (Aug. 1985)
Role: Jobber Villain, Hard-Luck Character, Failed Face-Turn Guy
Group Affiliations: The Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation, The Rangers
PL 9 (95)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Deception 2 (+1)
Expertise (Criminal) 2 (+2)
Intimidation 6 (+7 Size)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Close Combat, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack

Powers:
"Armadillo Mutations"
"Natural Size" Growth 3 (Str & Sta +3, +3 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -3 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [7]
Burrowing 7 (8 mph) [7]

"Huge Claws" Strength-Damage +1 (Extras: Penetrating 8) [9]
"Armadillo Shell" Protection 4 (Extras: Impervious 9) [13]
"Roll Into Ball" Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 4) (Flaws: Immobile -2) (Activation -1) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Claws +7 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +12 (+5 Impervious, +15 Ball Shape, +7 Impervious), Fortitude +8, Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Money)- Antonio is obsessed with money. It's not simple greed, though -- he needs it for an operation that can reverse his mutation. See, he had himself altered to make money for his wife's operation. Problem was, since he was now a monster, she dumped him when she recovered.
Reputation (Failure)- Antonio's tried to go straight, and often

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 9 (95)

-The Armadillo is one of the great Doggest Nice Guys in all the Marvel Universe. Getting his horrific appearance so he could get the money for his wife's operation, he was crushed when she cheated on him & divorced him right away. So after about the saddest origin in comics history, he decided to get money to reverse his operation, which meant becoming a villain AGAIN. Problem being, he wasn't very good at it, being too nice to kill, and too dumb to be really effective. After losing to about everyone in the Marvel Universe, he tried to be a hero with The Rangers, but failed AGAIN, becoming a D-league villain yet again. He's currently just off of "Modok's 11", thinking of teaming up with some of his teammates from there. Expect him to fail yet again, and then maybe fail some more.

-Pretty dangerous in a fight, Armadillo's only PL 9 as a Brick/Powerhouse, being pretty good as a henchman or solo threat to a single hero. He's not high on Skills or Advantages, so don't expect a well-rounded attack, just a big, tough grappler who's semi-hard to hurt. He can make a Ball Shape that's REALLY tough to hurt, but it leaves him an easy target (moreso than he usually is, anyways). He's got Thing/Colossus-like durability, but lower hitting power.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Jabroniville » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:23 pm

Image

ALPHA FLIGHT:

And now for the unusual story of Alpha Flight -- one of John Byrne's most enduring creations, much to his chagrin. Just read his FAQ on the subject first- it's utterly fascinating stuff.

See, Alpha Flight was of course created during John Byrne's run as the artist & co-plotter of the X-Men book, back when it was gaining MAJOR steam and was generally known as the best book around, Chris Claremont being the notable other half of the equation. And Byrne's own story is that the Alphans were literally created for no other reason that to "survive a fight with the X-Men", opposing them in a story about Canada finally trying to get Wolverine back on the squad, after abandoning them in "Giant-Size X-Men #1", completing a minor plot thread there. So the Alphans Pearl Harbored the X-Men, did some damage, but the X-Men fought back, and ultimately they came to an agreement. And that was kinda supposed to be it for them, aside from some minor appearances later.

Byrne himself admits most of the team was created for little purpose other than to match the X-Men's powers. Mac, Snowbird & Shaman were his "fan creations" (ie. heroes he'd cooked up as a younger fan -- something I'm sure a LOT of pros do but don't often admit to it), while Shaman, Sasquatch, Northstar & Aurora were basically there to run up against individual X-Men power-wise and stalemate them (Shaman creates a huge storm, for instance). Most of them represented various aspects of Canada and it's mythos (Byrne himself is Canadian -- he actually went to art school with one of my drawing teachers): Mac and his wife were from Onatrio (Canada's most populous province and the wannabe centre of it's universe), Shaman was a Native from Calgary, Sasquatch was a CFL player from British Columbia, the twins were Francophones from Quebec, and Snowbird had links to the mythology of the Inuits in the Northern territories. Now, in what has become somewhat of a notorious comment by him, the man has stated that the team was pretty bland, lacked personality, and that he really didn't like him all that much. Yet he insists that fans wrote in constantly, badgering him & Marvel for an "Alpha Flight" series. Now, Byrne is kind of a egomaniac blowhard, but he really doesn't have much of a reason to lie and say that his characters sucked if he didn't ACTUALLY BELIEVE they sucked, so I'm gonna believe him.

But apparently the fans demanded it, and so a new team book was formed, springing off from the X-Men. Byrne states that he figured if SOMEone was gonna do it, it may as well be him. So he added a few more members to the team (Puck & Marrina early on), ones that had personalities he could properly mold instead of the "bland" ones he'd initially created (one wonders why the man didn't just re-do or fix up the old personas), and a pretty big roster was formed. Alpha Flight became this total tool of the government, and had a Gruenwald-like touch in that they were the "A" team of Canada, with other, lesser trainee teams beneath them (Beta & Omega Flight). This spread out a huge supporting cast, including both Boxes, Diamond Lil, Goblyn & Laura Dean, Purple Girl, Windshear and many other trainee characters with silly powers.

Oh, and Byrne offed James "Mac" Hudson one year in (#12), effectively killing the most famous and symbolic member of the team. This was pretty shocking stuff for the time, but (again) Byrne admits that Mac didn't have a whole hell of a lot of characterisation to him, and that Heather was much more interesting. He says that he NEVER wanted Heather to put on a costume herself and lead the team, as that was "cliche", but sure as hell that managed to happen the second he was off the book (28 issues in).

Personally, I've not read much of it. I have a couple issues I got as a kid in some Grab-Bag of random comics (remember those? Stores used to sell a bunch of 'em, and you could never tell what you were gonna get. I got a She-Hulk issue with "Doctor Bong" and some creepy-ass Strikeforce Morituri issue as well), but they were really bizarre stuff with an odd group of trainees fighting the Dream Queen (who turned out to be a direct blatant rip-off from some other comic). They had some really early Jim Lee art in them as well (looking quite different from the eventual style he'd master- the women all look different, for one). I read a bit of the first collected trade, but found it to be... pretty standard comic book stuff. Quite mediocre to be honest, and you can see Byrne struggle with making the cast interesting. His art is much worse than his X-Men or Fantastic Four stuff as well, because he's inking his own stuff (let that be a lesson to anyone who underestimates the value of a good inker). After Byrne left with issue 28, Bill Mantlo took over, and displaced almost the entire team while bringing in new Beta Flight members to focus on. Eventually, even he left, letting a bunch of guys I've never heard of take over.

And honestly, despite me being a Canadian... I've never felt an attachment to these guys. Neither did any other kid I knew -- they were just that team of guys that was crappier than the X-Men or the Avengers, and were just kinda around. Nobody on the playground seemed to give a crap about Alpha Flight, no matter where they came from (historically, Americans have ALWAYS liked the Alphans more than Canadians have). The book maintained some level of fanbase, but REALLY noticeably limped it's way into the 1990s with horrible outfits and worse art, managed to kill or resurrect a fat chunk of the roster (thus making fans not care anymore), before FINALLY being cancelled with #130 in 1994.

And this is where things get weird. See, a lot of books got cancelled in the Great Comic Book Crash, and it was mostly the kind of mediocre "this is what we pass off on new creators to get them used to writing books" type of junk that was EVERYWHERE in the early '90s (Darkhawk, Sleepwalker, The Darkhold Redeemers, The Night Stalkers, etc.). But for some reason, Alpha Flight stuck with a few people. And so we got a handful of reboots of the series. The first (in 1997, three years after the cancellation of the first) was a mostly-forgotten run written by a guy named Steven Seagle with REALLY '90s art that had Heather leading the team... AGAIN... after Mac died... AGAIN. It also featured a new team of trainees, made up of some of the more one-note, generic characters I've seen in comics, with Murmur, Radius & Flex, plus a goofy-ass looking Manbot, and Sasquatch-as-an-animalistic-beast, who turned out to be an ACTUAL Sasquatch and not Walter Langkowski. Oh yeah, and then there was a clone of Mac (who by this point had possibly the most convoluted backstory of a character in the HISTORY of comic books -- which is SAYING SOMETHING) who was on the team as well.

This book had a couple fans, but mostly people crapped on it, as the new guys "weren't Alpha Flight", as Wolverine would later say when they buried the book after it's cancellation, and we never saw them again. It lasted a paltry 20 issues (though it was the Dark Age). THEN came the Scott Lobdell version of the team.

And most of you should know my feelings on Lobdell by now, but let me just reiterate: He sucked. He sucked at writing SO BAD during the '90s and early 2000s that it wasn't even funny. This guy got handed Marvel's flagship book by this point in "The Uncanny X-Men" and managed to run it into the ground with asinine stories, stupid Acolytes filling up the pages, and enough redundant stuff that he nearly killed off the huge fanbase the X-Men had. And his bizarre idea of "funny" comics... I mean, I like comedy, sure, but when you're writing a super-hero book, this kind of dumb "BWAH-HAH-HAH, this guy is a SUPER-HERO and yet he's an OLD MAN!" humor is the kind of thing that a mentally retarded fifth-grader comes up with, not the kind of thing you put together in something that people are supposed to spend actual money on. Yes, this Alpha Flight team was AWFUL -- With BOTH Guardian & Vindicator gone, it was up to Sasquatch to be the team "icon" now (a position he actually holds to this day, after being a supporting guy for decades), and he led a team of wild & whacky stupid characters who were more befitting of a one-panel gag (where they would have been FINE) than a full comic book series (this is sorta like building a movie out of "It's Pat"- they could've worked as small skits or one-panel jokes, but nobody wants to read about the man who pretends he has powers, when in fact it's his HORSE than has powers). The book was rapidly cancelled in less than a year.

Then the worst-possible thing for Alpha Flight fans happened... a new guy came in post-M-Day, packing all the mutant powers that'd been lost when 95% or whatever of the mutant population lost 'em, and Alpha Flight stood in his way. One panel later, they were all lying on the ground. Yes... he "Alpha Flighted" them. An OFF-PANEL DEATH for a big chunk of the team, with only Sasquatch and Snowbird being revealed to have survived. And they were mourned... kinda. See, I heard a COUPLE rumblings, but mostly the fans didn't give a crap, since so few people really cared about Alpha Flight in the first place. I mean, these were purely C-level characters at-best -- the types of guys you could see someone having a "Doom Patrol" fascination with (ie. "Vocal fanbase much smaller than actual fanbase"), but the very fact that they could be offed like the New Warriors were (and that was just two named characters and a couple newbie scrubs) said a lot. A mini-series came about that featured a new team (with Sasquatch plus a few American super-heroes who resisted the Super-Human Registration Act), but fans mostly crapped on it.

Of course, Marvel's mediocre event "The Chaos War" brought the team back, and now there's a NEW creative team on it, insisting that they're gonna prove John Byrne wrong and reform the "awesomness" that was Alpha Flight. So I fully expect another book cancellation within the year, but that's the cynic in me.

So despite the fact that I consider the book and most of the characters on it mediocre filler and a "starting point" book for creative teams looking to prove themselves (the aforementioned Mr. Lee seemed to do okay with that, not to mention Fabian Nicieza), I'm doing some builds of them for 3e! I did 'em all for 2e, but it completes my builds of Foreigners, and many of them are very unique and interesting power-wise (a guy who summons duplicates through time, another who summons three distinct Minions, and a guy who can control all machinery). Plus, it allows me to reiterate many complaints I have about the team, and criticize things in general! After all, super-heroes can have jobbers, too. All in all, they're actually a pretty fun group to talk about and build.

The Roster looks like:
Original Squad:
1) Guardian (Team Leader, Inventor, Stock Hero Guy)
2) Vindicator (Heather Hudson- originally a Civilian Ally, eventually an ascended hero and Team Leader)
3) Shaman (Mystical Native Guy)
4) Snowbird (Animal Shapeshifter, Inuit Demigoddess)
5 & 6) Northstar & Aurora (Arrogant Frenchman and Demure Split-Personality Twin Sister, Super-Speed Fliers)
7) Sasquatch (Powerhouse, Scientist)

New Recruits:
8) Puck (Dwarf Martial Artist)
9) Marrina (Merwoman)
10) Diamond Lil (Diamond Skin)
11) Talisman II (Native Mage)
12) Box I (Bochs)
13) Box II (Jeffries)
14) Purple Girl
15) Windshear (Wind-Powered Suit)
16) Wild Child (Wolverine Rip-Off)

Gamma/Beta Flight Guys:
17) Smart Alec (Smart Guy)
18 & 19) Auric & Silver
20) Goblyn & Laura Dean (Switching Sisters)
21) Flashback
22) Earthmover (Wannabe New member that vanished)
23) Manikin (Summons Creatures)
24) Feedback
25) Nemesis (Sword Chick)

Failed Reboot Team:
26) Radius (Force Field)
27) Flex (Body Weaponry)
28) Murmur (Mind Control)
29) Sasquatch II (Monster)
30) Manbot (Manbot)
31) Ghost Girl (Phasing Girl)

Crappy Lobdell Team:
32) Centennial (Old Man Flying Brick)
33) Puck II (Puck's Daughter)
34) Yukon Jack (Caveman Warrior)
35) Major Mapleleaf (Guy Riding Horse)

There's also "The Flight", a retcon written by Lobdell (again), to show what the team was like in it's first mission:
36) Wolverine (was supposed to be the leader)
37) St. Elmo (wannabe God with Light Powers)
38) Groundhog (Digging Suit)

Plus a sometime ally who never fully joined the team:
38) Wyre (techno-wire control)
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Woodclaw » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:40 am

Alpha FLight always looked as a giant lost opportunity to me (I usually file them under the "character one writer away from a decent story") usually the authors seem divided about how to handle them causing the team to lack a proper identity, half of the time they were a knock-off of the Avengers the other half a rip-off of the X-Men.
Overall I think this is pretty sad.
"Yes, it's a bloody flying alligator setting fire to my city!"

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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Horsenhero » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:58 am

Wow. I never actually realized how many characters were members of Alpha Flight...and how many of them sucked. I do have some general comments.

1- You're very generous calling Marvel's "Chaos War" mediocre. I tend to think "total suck" and a great way to ruin Hercules as a character.

2-You're wrong about Lobdell. There can never, ever be enough bad things said about his writing. EVER.

3- I'll be interested in seeing how you handle Marrina, Alpha Flight's very own Triton. You know, looks kinda cool and you're anxious to see what they can do...which turns out to be...breath underwater and swim. She's like what? PL 5? Most jobbers pity her lameness.

4- I agree with Woodclaw here. After all, the X-Men went through decades of being Marvel's "lame team" only to be rejuvenated by Claremont & Co. Alpha Flight could do it too.

I'm looking forward to this set of builds. I really am.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Invictus » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:14 am

I used to say "I like Alpha Flight", but hindsight has revealed to me that I really always meant "I like Snowbird and Puck, can take or leave the rest". And after Byrne left ... when a book's glory days are when they were written and drawn by that guy who didn't give a damn about any of the characters, the days of suck are truly frightening to see.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Devastation Bob » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:27 am

Yay, Tagak! If you ever see the whole cover to that issue he appeared in, it shows him leaping out of a mirror and they actually put a huge green arrow pointing to that, as if that might make you more likely to buy the comic. Hee hee.

After you stat out Alpha Flight, maybe you could show us your ideal roster out of all the characters?
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby catsi563 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:11 am

Ive always liked Alpha Flight myself, but for me that means the concept behind the actual comic. The story and character potential was great and Im a Sasquatch fan myself Snow bird and Puck fan myself.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:46 pm

Regarding John Byrne (it's impossible to talk much about Alpha Flight without referencing the man, so I'll get it out of the way here):

-He's one of the more fascinating people in comics to read about. Especially his website, Byrne Robotics (link above), where he describes all the work he'd done in comics, and the various stories behind it. He's controversial as all hell (moreso than just about anybody), and has one of the worst reps in comics as an individual, and it's not hard to see why. However, he's right a good bit of the time, and is much more humble at points than some people imply he is. I definitely see what he was talking about regarding his struggles with Alpha Flight, and many people back him up regarding what a hard person Marvel Editor Jim Shooter was to deal with (he fixed Marvel's "missed deadline" problem and brought them new levels of financial success, but at the cost of making him the most hated man in the room). He frequently admits that despite falling-out with Chris Claremont over the X-Men books, the sales went UP after Byrne left. He even calls his Fantastic Four run "over-rated".

But yeah, he's got his bad parts (not even talking about him personally, as I've never met the guy). His website comes across VERY MUCH as "Why I am right, and why everyone else in comics sucks and is hard to deal with" (forgetting, perhaps, that if you have a problem with EVERYBODY, then maybe YOU'RE the problem). He actually says "I don't suffer fools gladly", which is a roundabout way of saying "I am a giant prick". He's flat-out stated he won't work with DC OR Marvel again (who burns BOTH bridges?), he's frequently argued publically with other creators, and THE. MAN. IS. OBSESSED. With taking characters with years of character development and STRIPPING them of it all, and reverting them to their original form! Fans of The Vision, direct all your hatred of his "I am an unfeeling robot" days to this man right here. Despite his hatred of any change (though he IS right in that the rapid-fire aging of characters like Dick Grayson & Kitty Pryde have REALLY warped the percieved ages of other characters), he also seems to be in love with altering heroes' origins (was there a real need to have Peter Parker gaining his powers in a giant explosion that also gave Doctor Octopus HIS powers?). It's really not surprising that most other creators seem to dislike him.

He comes across as a jerk-ass egomaniac who nonetheless used to write some GREAT stories, and used to draw really great stuff as well. His X-Men run with Claremont speaks for itself and puts him squarely in the "Best Runs on anything ever" list, but still.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:50 pm

Image

GUARDIAN (James MacDonald Hudson, aka "Mac")
Created By:
John Byrne & Chris Claremont
First Appearance: The Uncanny X-Men #109 (Feb. 1978)
Role: Team Leader, Boring Leader Guy, Flying Blaster
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Am-Can Corporation
PL 10 (167)
STRENGTH
2/7 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+12)
Expertise (Government Agent) 2 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Energy Blasts) 3 (+10)
Technology 8 (+12)
Vehicles 5 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Defensive Attack, Improved Aim, Improved Initiative, Inspire, Leadership, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 7, Teamwork

Powers:
"Guardian Battlesuit" (Flaws: Removable) [76]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
Protection 5 (5)
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16)
"Cybernetic Link" Communication (Electronic) 2 (8)
"Computerized Senses" Sense (Infravision, Direction Sense, Radar- Accurate Radius, Sonar- Ultrasonic Hearing- Accurate, Detect Energy- Acute) (11)

"Super-Powerful Energy Field"
Force Field 5 (Extras: Impervious 9) (14)
Enhanced Advantages 2: Withstand Damage, Ultimate Toughness Save (2)

"Energy Blasts- Ultrasonic, EM Pulse, Concussive" Blast 10 (Feats: Split, Variable- Multiple Energy Types) (22) -- (28)
    AE: "Graviton Beam" Move Object 9 (18)
    AE: "Flare" Dazzle Visuals 8 (16)
    AE: "Ultrasound Beam" Dazzle Hearing 10 (20)
    AE: "Energy Absorber" Energy Absorption- Blast (20)
    AE: "Plasma Funnel" Snare 8 (Flaws: Limited to One Target) (16)
    AE: "Shunt- Suspend Position to the Earth's Rotation" Flight 6 (total 14: 32,000 mph) (Flaws: Limited Uses) (6)
-- (94 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 16)
Unarmed Suit +8 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Energy Blasts +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Dazzles & Funnel +10 (+8-10 Ranged Affliction, DC 18-20)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +3 (+8 Suit, +13 Force Field), Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Heather Hudson)- Mac & Heather have been married for years, despite the fact that he keeps dying. They remain close, despite Wolverine's crush on Heather, and the fact that Madison Jeffries was with her after Mac died the first time.
Responsibility (Constant Deaths)- He's "died" about four times by this point, beating Jean Grey by two.
Responsibility (Department H, Canadian Government)- Mac gets stuck as a government stooge a lot of the time, being the leader of the team.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 14 (167)

-Starting off with the main character (sort of) of Alpha Flight, Guardian! aka James MacDonald "Mac" Hudson. Of course, Heather Hudson (Vindicator) is really the main character of the book, since Mac died really early on and came back years later, but he's the iconic hero of the team, and is all that people usually remember, since most of the series has been forgotten (just look at the line-up people remember- ONLY the crew Byrne invented for the X-Men run).

-That didn't stop Marvel from bringing him back Post-Byrne, in one of the most ludicrously contrived return-from-death scenes EVER in comics (aliens teleported him to them and made him up as an anti-Galactus weapon cyborg dude). Or making him younger. And then revealing the younger self to be a clone, and bringing back the original guy. Then the clone died. Then the real Mac was killed again with the team against Weapon Omega. When you're a third-stringer team, stuff happens to you alot in Marvel. You end up being everyone's favorite whipping boy. But seriously, he's got the most amazingly-complicated backstory of any character in comics. I think he even one-ups M & Penance. And hell, poor Jean Grey got stuck with the "died and gets resurrected a lot" tag, but Mac has her beat by DOUBLE at this point.

-Like a good (or decent) leader, Guardian is slightly over-costed by one Power Level. He's a bit short on Advantages, but makes up for it with his super-powerful armour, which gives him a very effective Force Field (it's shown as taking Wolverine's claws and Hulk's punches without much effort, but I didn't want to go THAT nuts on it, so we'll presume that's him Hero Pointing it to higher levels, or using lots of Withstand Damage), Flight, a powerful Blast with multi-faceted attacks (thanks go out to the VERY thorough Alpha Flight wiki: http://alphaflight.net/alphanex/index.p ... Guardian_I for the full list of powers), and extremely good Senses. He's a Defensive and Offensive Powerhouse, perfect to the lead the team, though I never saw him as powerful enough to go beyond PL 10.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:04 pm

Image

.... c'mon. Really?

PUCK I (Eugene Milton Judd)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (Aug. 1983)
Role: Melee Fighter
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, Gamma Flight
PL 10 (166)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 8
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+15)
Athletics 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+13)
Expertise (Adventurer) 10 (+13)
Expertise (History) 9 (+12)
Insight 4 (+7)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 2 (+10, +14 Size)
Technology 2 (+5)
Treatment 1 (+4)
Vehicles 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Evasion 2, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 2 (Dozens), Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 8, Takedown 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Possessed by the Black Raazer"
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

"Hyper-Dense Physiology"
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
Speed 6 (60 mph) [6]
Power-Lifting 2 (12 tons) [2]
Immunity 4 (Pressure, Cold, Poison, Disease) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Small Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
(-1 Strength & Speed, +2 Defenses, +4 Stealth, -4 Intimidation)

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +8, Fortitude +9, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Heather Hudson)- Eugene helped Heather get over her husband's death, and mentored her in taking over Alpha Flight. During the course of these events, Eugene fell in love with her. This wracks him with both guilt and fear, for he is essentially going after a widow, and he knows that she could never feel for him the way he does for her.
Responsibility (Constant Pain/The Black Raazer)- Eugene is wracked with near-constant pain, first thought to be a result of the condition that gave him dwarfism, but eventually it was fully revealed that it was because of the demonic possession of the Black Raazer. This was, of course, a retcon, but it's still canon. Eventually Raazer was excized, but a complicated thing involving The Master and Sasquatch working some funky machine made him a dwarf again.
Responsibility (Dwarf)- The world isn't built for people Judd's height. People take him less seriously, women take little interest in him (not that he doesn't try), etc.
Involuntary Transformation (Raazer's Possession)- If The Black Raazer is ever expelled from Judd's body, he will attain his normal, tall height. Unfortunately, this means that he reverts to his true age as well- that of an elderly man.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 28 / Powers: 21 / Defenses: 9 (166)

-OK, a big aside here: Can we come up with a BETTER NAME for people afflicted with the various conditions that cause them to grow ultra-short and squat? "Midget" is apparently only applied to people of small size, but proportionate limbs (a condition that has mostly been cured as far as I know- "The Wizard of Oz" film's munchkins were apparently a dying breed), and has become an "N-Word" like perjorative to the "little people" community (I normally have little sympathy for people who decide to follow the Euphemism Treadmill and turn EVERY word into something un-PC & offensive, but since the term isn't even technically applicable, and short people have it pretty bad, I figure I'll acquiesce this time). The term "Dwarf" is commonly-accepted, but every damn time I hear the term, the first thing to come to mind is "-- AND MY AXE!", ie. it's just too commonly-associated with the fantasy creatures. "Little people" just comes across as a diminutive, childish name, in spite of that being the most popular PC term currently. Plus, it's too many damn syllables and words.

-Puck is one of the first characters Byrne added to Alpha Flight when Marvel basically forced him to write it. Realizing that the characters he's created initially were kind of weak, he wanted to put in some new blood, and for some reason this meant a dwarf whose name was a pun on Canada's national sport. Puck was given the "old adventurer" gimmick, and was an agile little fireball of a dude, but it took the second writer, Bill Mantlo, to add in some subplot about him being super-powered because of Black Raazer, an Arabic demon that inhabited his body and made him small. Byrne HATED this change (Judd was based off of a friend of his with achondroplasty, a condition that causes dwarfism), much like he hated every single other change ever made to one of his characters (I find myself defending Byrne from his detractors sometimes, but it's like he refuses to change ANYTHING in comics, and wants to revert everything back to it's original form, y'know?), and yeah, it was kind of silly. More silly than a tiny man who is somehow a great fighter, I'm not sure I'd go that far.

-Me, I could never get into this character. He's just to... GOOFY for me to really appreciate, and he doesn't fit into the regular Marvel Universe. I mean, he's some tiny 3'6" man covered in more body hair than Wolverine, who fights by cartwheeling his way into people. And he wears a unitard with a head-mask and has A GIANT "P" on the front of his costume. The fact that he was a crime-fighting dwarf was silly enough (at least The Atom was just short but still obviously ripped and athletic, and he was from the Golden Age), but one who was a dwarf because he was possessed by an evil Arab spirit that... shrank him? I don't even mind that he's a Canadian stereotype (I know of only a handful of people who ever say "eh?"), it's just the silliness.

-Yes, Puck is surprisingly effective and expensive, all things considered. I always figure this guy for a PL 9 or something, but then you get the full summation of his stats: He's super-strong (near Spidey-level by some regards, though the comics do NOT reflect that, and I penalize him accordingly to Power-Lifting and Strength 7), a great fighter, the most athletic guy around, he's seventy years old and has a Wolvie-like history of running around the world and gathering every skill known to man, and oh yeah, he's also super-durable (called "nearly invulnerable" at some points, but he really just takes some bullets and energy blasts and that's the end of it- this is strictly a "show, don't tell" kind of situation and I consider it mainly hearsay). He can still hang with people like Wolverine & Domino and not stick out like a sore thumb.

-So Puck ends up a fairly pricey PL 10 (though he's PL 9.5 offensively), able to modify nearly all of his caps (he especially favours Defensive & Accurate Attack), goonsweep like crazy, and avoid tons of attacks. His Alphanex bio goes a BIT too far in describing himself as some uber-god of war (the guy sat out a whole fight in the Avengers/People's Protectorate/Alpha Flight story because he was so under-powered for it, and this was the same crossover that said he was invulnerable), but he's surprisingly decent. Problematically, he's had some power boosts over the years, so it's tough to figure out exactly where he lies on the scale.


PUCK I (Eugene Milton Judd)- Non-Powered
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (Aug. 1983)
Role: Melee Fighter
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, Gamma Flight
PL 8 (137)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+15)
Athletics 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Expertise (Adventurer) 10 (+13)
Expertise (History) 9 (+12)
Insight 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 2 (+10, +14 Size)
Technology 2 (+5)
Treatment 1 (+4)
Vehicles 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Diehard, Evasion 2, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 2 (Dozens), Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 8, Takedown 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Hyper-Athletic For His Size"
Speed 1 (2 mph) [1]

"Small Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
(-1 Strength & Speed, +2 Defenses, +4 Stealth, -4 Intimidation)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +9, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Heather Hudson)- Eugene helped Heather get over her husband's death, and mentored her in taking over Alpha Flight. During the course of these events, Eugene fell in love with her. This wracks him with both guilt and fear, for he is essentially going after a widow, and he knows that she could never feel for him the way he does for her.
Responsibility (Constant Pain/The Black Raazer)- Eugene is wracked with near-constant pain, first thought to be a result of the condition that gave him dwarfism, but eventually it was fully revealed that it was because of the demonic possession of the Black Raazer. This was, of course, a retcon, but it's still canon.
Involuntary Transformation (Raazer's Possession)- If The Black Raazer is ever expelled from Judd's body, he will attain his normal, tall height. Unfortunately,

Total: Abilities: 64 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 29 / Powers: 10 / Defenses: 9 (137)

-This build represents Puck in his debut, and what John Byrne always intended him to be- a dwarf with martial arts talent and physical conditioning enough to allow him near-peak-human stats and supreme agility. This makes him PL 7.5, which befits his earliest appearances as a goonsweeping miniaturized tough guy.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Tagak, Armadillo, Alpha Flight- Guardian, Puck

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:37 pm

Image

PUCK II (Zuzha Yu)
Created By:
Scott Lobdell & Clayton Henry
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (2004)
Role: Melee Fighter, Suddenly-Introduced Family Member
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight
PL 8 (88)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+12)
Athletics 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+9)
Expertise (Bar Owner) 4 (+4)
Perception 2 (+2)
Vehicles 1 (+1)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 2, Takedown 2

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: High Density"
Power-Lifting 2 (12 tons) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
Speed 5 (60 mph) [5]
Immunity 4 (Heat, Cold, Poison, Disease) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Will +3

Complications:
Relationship (Major Mapleleaf)- The two were in the first stages of a relationship.

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 10 / Defenses: 7 (88)

-Yeah, there was a Puck II, in that terrible Lobdell run on the concept. And we saw Eugene Judd get added to the "Jefferson Pierce School of 20 Years of Continuity is Not Enough to Prove You Have No Children", having a multi-racial daughter with powers like his, who wasn't a dwarf (since of course dwarfs aren't physically attractive since they have stocky limbs and crap, and you CAN'T HAVE UNATTRACTIVE WOMEN IN COMICS! because then nerds and girls alike won't care for the character- a sad but justified and true reality of the business). The point of this, I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter much, as she's currently dead with plenty of other Alphans, and since she's a recent creation, is unlikely to come back. Just a bad idea and a generic character design (not even a COSTUME, really- she's just some asian-looking chick in baggy jeans and a tube-top, along with some silly tattoos).

-As expected, she comes up pretty cheap, not being shown with many talents, what with her short run and all. She's PL 8 on offense and defense, which means she's not that great, especially since the key Alphans tend to be in the PL 10 range. She's supposed to be a good martial artist, but then so are a lot of people, and she can modify her caps just fine. Gotta love Alphanex's description of her strength levels: "somewhere in the 800 lbs. to 25 tons range"- seriously, is THAT what counts as an acceptable range these days?
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