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Jab's He-Builds: Beast Man, Trap Jaw, Two-Bad, Bow

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Re: Jab's Builds: Talisman, Snapdragon, Tagak, Armadillo

Postby Setothes » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:20 pm

Jabroniville wrote:ALPHA FLIGHT:


Ooh, I loved that team! Byrne's FAQ is pretty fun reading. I find it amusing that he got paid full price for the 'whiteout' scene in issue 5! (Boy, other than that, he's got nothing nice to say about Shooter, does he? Or, pretty much, anyone else...)

Snowbird is one of my top 5 comic characters ever.

Sasquatch, Marrina, Northstar and Aurora were also interesting characters, to me.

For the Betas, Omegas and newbies, Diamond Lil, Box II, Windshear, Smart Alec, Manikin, St. Elmo and Groundhog (the prototype for the Vindicator/Guardian suit, it seemed) were also neat.

Radius should show up again and join a team with Projecteur, Skids, Unuscione, Dr. Cecelia Reyes and Armor, since force field / force-field exoskeleton peeps seems to be such the common third-tier character power... (What a shock that half of those force-field peeps have been Acolytes!)
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Re: Jab's Builds: Tagak, Armadillo, Alpha Flight- Guardian, Puck

Postby Woodclaw » Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:31 am

I know that I'm probably a minority, but I rather enjoyed Puck, granted his appearence was horribly silly, but I liked the idea of finally having a superhero that wasn't 5'10" or taller (Wolverine was the only other instance at the time). Also I found his fighting style quite funny to watch.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Tagak, Armadillo, Alpha Flight- Guardian, Puck

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:42 pm

Image

Okay, I'm FROM Edmonton, and I think his costume needs work.

EARTHMOVER (Chuck Moss)
Created By:
Matt Nixon & Ethan Van Sciver
First Appearance: Wolverine #179 (Sept. 2002)
Role: Forgotten Character
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight
PL 9 (159)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+9)
Close Combat (Swords) 1 (+9)
Expertise (Survival) 7 (+8)
Expertise (Hockey Player) 2 (+5) -- Uses Agility
Expertise (Mysticism) 5 (+6)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 5 (+8)
Ranged Combat (Earth Attacks) 2 (+8)
Stealth 7 (+10)
Treatment 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 6, Tracking

Powers:
"Earthmover Totem"
"Summon Earth Elementals" Summon 4 (Extras: Active, Controlled, Horde, Multiple Minions 3- 8 Elementals) [32]

"Earth Binding" Snare 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Shapeable) (32) -- [36]
    AE: "Earth Hammer" Blast 9 (18)
    AE: "Earth Wave" Blast 9 (Extras: Area- Burst) (27)
    AE: Movement 3 (Permeate 3) (Flaws: Limited to Earth) (3)
    AE: Earth Control 8 (16)
Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Earth Hammer +8 (+9 Ranged Damage, DC 24)
Earth Wave +9 Area (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Earth Binding +8 Area (+8 Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +5, Fortitude +8, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Omega Level)- Earthmover has vast potential for power, and must learn to master it, or it shall master him.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 68 / Defenses: 13 (159)

-Earthmover's just... bizarre. Created by a newbie writer Matt Nixon for a guest arc in "Wolverine", he was the supernatural equivalent of an "Omega Mutant", in Professor Xavier's own words, and it came to Logan to train the guy. He ended up getting the animal totem of the Earthworm, and he became a Geokinetic shaman-type using various types of "Earth magic". He also became a great survivalist with tons of skill that even Logan envied (he was able to walk up to an Elk buck and put his arm on it), and in general this could be a decent concept, if done right. Unfortunately, it was devalued by having him run around in an Edmonton Oilers jersey (sure, he was an aspiring hockey player) and generally look like an almighty tool.

-Hilariously, this guy was given the big Mary Sue treatment of "so good and full of potential it's scary", only to COMPLETELY vanish from comics! He showed up in an X-Men book, and as a rescued member of Alpha Flight in that goofy book Lobdell wrote, and after that... nothing. Part of the problem was that they created the character for ALPHA FLIGHT, a team that suffers Doom Patrol-like cancellation rates. Then there's his goofy look and silly origin. The whole Mary Sue "He's Omega Level!" thing is just icing on the cake. Who knows if we'll ever see the guy again?

-Okay, the guy's a goof, but he's rather powerful. Despite being a newbie, he's a PL 9, and he costs a SWACK of points for that level (nearly thirty points over)- he's very strong normally, and also packs the ability to Summon a Horde of Earth Elementals, then toss a bunch of earth at people in a few different forms (Standard Blast, Wave, Snare, Permeate and Earth Control). The fact that the two sets of powers aren't linked boosts his costs a lot- he can use the Horde AND his various powers simultaneously.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Tagak, Armadillo, Alpha Flight- Guardian, Puck

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:47 pm

Image

That's about the most human she's EVER looked, by the by. Usually she's too weird-looking to be a pin-up.

MARRINA (Marrina Smallwood)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (Aug. 1983)
Role: Aquatic Hero, Namor's Wife
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, The Avengers (ally)
PL 9 (126)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+7)
Athletics 1 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+9)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+5)
Insight 2 (+2)
Perception 7 (+7)
Persuasion 4 (+4)
Stealth 4 (+7)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Power Attack

Powers:
"Aquatic Physiology"
Immunity 3 (Cold, Drowning, Pressure) [3]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

Swimming 11 (1,000 mph) (11) -- [12]
    AE: Speed 4 (30 mph) (4)
"Oil Secretions" Dazzle Visuals 8 (Flaws: Touch Range) [8]
"Water Spouts" Water Blast 9 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (Flaws: Requires Large Water Body) (18) -- [19]
    AE: Water Control 10
Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Water Spout +9 Area (+9 Area Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +6

Complications:
Involuntary Transformation (Leviathan)- Marrina, if brought near a Plodex, or made pregant, can and will shift into one of two forms- either a sharp-clawed, savage creature, or a mile-long Leviathan with almost no sentient thought processes.
Responsibility (Peaceful)- Marrina dislikes violence, and does not want anyone to see her when she is in an enraged state.
Relationship (Namor)- One of many women to have earned Namor's love, Marrina went as far as to marry him, and bear his child. It ended badly, with him forced to slay her with the Ebony Blade when she went insane.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 45 / Defenses: 17 (126)

-Marrina's an odd fit in Alpha Flight history, as she came in as an alien egg that attached itself to humans, and made her way as an Aquatic archetype hero for the Alphans, eventually hooking up with Namor (who I believe John Byrne was also writing at that time). Her story gets weird from there, though, as she ends up turning into a monster half a dozen times (as the Plodex want her to mate with another of her species), eventually needing to be killed by her husband in her final form. And after that, we pretty much never saw Marrina again. Really weird, in that she married a semi-major hero (but a B-league seller) and then disappeared so easily, but that's what happens when new writers take over a series, or the current writer runs out of stuff for you to do. I still say that the lack of sadness over her death is based more off the fact that she wasn't Comic Book Gorgeous (she had a nice body, but big black googly eyes) than anything else. Byrne seems to love that trope, but in a male-dominated fanbase, that isn't exactly gonna help her popularity. The fact that girls themselves tend to ignore ugly women as well just adds to it.

-A PL 9 who's more of a PL 7.5 in close combat when water's not close by, Marrina's a mediocre hand-to-hand scrapper, but needs water to create her dangerous Water Spouts.

---

Image

MARRINA- LEVIATHAN FORM
Role:
Evil Version
PL 14 (196)
STRENGTH
12 STAMINA 14 AGILITY -2
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -4 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -3

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 6 (+8)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+5)
Intimidation 10 (+16 Size)
Perception 5 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Eye Beams) 10 (+10)
Stealth 26 (+6)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Grab, Startle, Power Attack, Takedown 2

Powers:
"Animal Senses" Senses 2 (Low-Light Vision, Direction Sense) [2]
Unarmed Reach 10 (Reach: 150 feet) [10]
Movement 1 (Slithering) [2]

"Sea Creature"
Swimming 6 (120 mph) [6]
Immunity 3 (Pressure, Cold, Drowning) [3]
Swimming 11 (1,000 mph) [11]

Features 2: Can Nullify all Electronic Signals [2]

"Natural Size" Growth 18 (Str & Sta +18, +18 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -18 Stealth) -- (144 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [37]
"Body Ram" Damage 14 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (56) -- [60]
    AE: "Single Strike" Damage 14 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Line +2) (42)
    AE: "Whirlpool Wake" Move Object 13 (Extras: Area-120ft. Burst +3) (Flaws: Touch Range, Limited to Dragging Into Water) (39)
    AE: "Eye Beams" Blast 18 (Feats: Extended Range 2- 400 feet) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Damage 13) (51)
Strength-Damage +4 [4]
Protection 7 (Extras: Impervious 19) [26]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Area Attacks +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative -2

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +21 (+10 Impervious), Fortitude +17, Will +6

Complications:
Disabled (Animal)- In this form, Marrina cannot speak to humans, nor use her limbs to easily manipulate objects.

Total: Abilities: -34 / Skills: 62--31 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 163 / Defenses: 29 (196)

-Marrina in her Leviathan form is brutally powerful, enough to challenge an entire team of Avengers (including Monica Rambeau, Thor, and Namor) and take nearly all of their attacks without worry. She was so mighty that she took Thor & Marvel's full-powered electrical blasts without dying.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Tagak, Armadillo, Alpha Flight- Guardian, Puck

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:48 pm

Image

DIAMOND LIL (Lillian Crawley-Jeffries)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Alpha Flight #1 (Aug. 1983- appeared), #11 (July 1984- showcased)
Role: Invulnerable Lady, Side Character, C-List Fodder
Group Affiliations: Alpha Flight, Beta Flight, Gamma Flight, Omega Flight
PL 9 (103)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+4)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+8)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Perception 2 (+2)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Vehicles 3 (+3)

Advantages:
Set-Up, Taunt

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Invulnerable Bio-Aura"
Protection 10 (Extras: Impervious 17) [27]
Immunity 10 (Falling Damage, Entrapment Effects) [10]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Withstand Damage, Ultimate Toughness Save [2]
Features 1: May Use Strands of Hair as a Tensile Structure (choking, lifting, etc.) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +12, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Disabled (Touch)- Lillian's powers partially-disabled her ability to feel by touch. If left to shuffle around in the dark, she may be further hampered. Similarly, this may affect her personal pleasures, if you get my drift.
Drawbacks (Diamond Skin)- Lil's powers are pretty cool, but her hyper-dense skin disallows convential means of surgery, which came back to bite her when she found a lump in her breast.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 40 / Defenses: 11 (103)

-Diamond Lil (named after a Mae West play from 1928) started out as an Omega Flight villainess (though she was duped/mind-controlled into it), but did a 'face turn' long enough to join the team for a short while. She seemed to be around just to get married off to Madison "Box" Jeffries, and hadn't really shown up in any major level in 15 years, up until the point they brought her back briefly for some "198" mutant stuff as a background character amongst the remaining powered-mutants, and then as a Sacrificial C-List Fodder character in "Necrosha". Not a bad concept, though kind of generic (not THAT strong, but diamond-hard), especially now that Emma Frost has her gimmick, but better in every way.

-A balanced PL 9, she's tough as nails (nearly equivalent to some major powerhouses) and hits quite hard (she's knocked around and killed some obviously-weaker parallel Earth versions of heroes in the usual "I'm the writer and I'm gonna show how tough MY characters are by killing other books' characters!" scene), but she's not up to the major leagues by any means with a point cost that low. Rather under-Skilled and REALLY low on Advantages. Regarding her Super-Strength- the "official" stats usually leave it out, but in the Alpha Flight books, she's been shown to knock super-powered beings quite a distance, and has fought Alternate versions of She-Hulk & Spider-Man on a decent enough keel to get some credit for being powerful. Looks like it's just one of those things that some writers forget. Note her cripplingly-low Defenses- she can take a punch, but mental attacks are gonna go straight through her.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:07 pm

I'm generally of the opinion that Alpha Flight COULD be made to be cool, like others have said. They had a solid batch of supporting characters (many with unique, interesting powers), an iconic main cast (when it "doesn't feel right" when they're not around, you know they're iconic), and there were various interesting one-of-a-kind things about them (a man taking control of a dark God's body, a Demigoddess shapeshifter), and they could have an interesting story.

They just lack that good, proper run that would make them huge. Sorta like the X-Men had with Claremont. The problem is, Alpha Flight is too much of a "starter run" book, and no major-league writers seem interested in them in the slightest.

There's a few key problems I can figure out:

1) The main cast is TOO iconic, but not quite interesting enough- Everyone agrees that the book needs Mac, Sasquatch, probably Heather, Snowbird and the twins to be THE Alpha Flight team... but none of these characters are overly popular. If you don't use them (like the 1997 series didn't), the Flight's few fans will revolt and snot all over the book. If you DO use them, then the same old fans won't really care.

2) No good villains. The Master of the World is at-best a standard Dr. Doom-ish megalomaniacal villain, even if he does have a unique origin (one M&M main universe character rips it off directly- some caveman-changed-by-aliens thing). The Great Beasts are a fallacy in that no fan is going to give a crap about a bunch of giant standard monster-villains. There's some grandeur to them, but ultimately very little personality (it's for this reason that Cthulu-type villains always fail in comics, too- the fans care about the VILLAINS, and a villain with no personality is a failed one). Tanaraq was cool, I suppose.

3) No "Big Events" aside from the Great Beasts thing. They didn't really save the world a whole bunch, and a lot of their villains weren't world-stoppers. "Smaller Scale" stories work sometimes, but a super TEAM needs some grandeur.

4) The "Trainee Team" thing was kind of already being done in the X-books, and Byrne made most of them deliberately silly or one-note (an invincible chick, a duplicator who was a bad fighter). Most of their character designs were pretty bad and/or silly as well- Puck was short and hairy, Marrina had big googly black eyes, Box I looked like a Kirby reject, etc.

Though who knows? Check the update on the new book coming out: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=30845. With a creative team as strong as Greg Pak & Dale Eaglesham (co-creator of My Beloved Cyclone), you'd expect greatness (Chaos War notwithstanding). But seriously, ANOTHER "Evil Government" arc? That story was told ten times in the last bunch of AF runs, and it's always rather boring to read. I do get some entertainment out of Canada being the most evil nation on the face of the Earth, though.

Regarding "Chaos War"- yeah, what a piece of crap. "Mediocre" is too nice a word- it SUCKED. It was literally issue-after-issue of Mikaboshi's faceless hordes (see above about villains with no personality) easily defeating all the heroes and the gods, and then getting tricked at the very last second. I liked the idea behind the ending, but the story was so unbelievably weak and drawn-out that I can't believe it got the OK.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby catsi563 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:58 am

funny enough with the team dynamic I always thought Mac was the thing holding the team back. It was heather that made things interesting. Macs death caused her to step up into a leadership role that she wasnt ready for but was uniquely suited.

to my perspective I felt she was the core of the team without being the stodgy too serious Mac or Cyclops was or having to be the overly confidence of cap.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Woodclaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:52 am

Jabroniville wrote:I'm generally of the opinion that Alpha Flight COULD be made to be cool, like others have said. They had a solid batch of supporting characters (many with unique, interesting powers), an iconic main cast (when it "doesn't feel right" when they're not around, you know they're iconic), and there were various interesting one-of-a-kind things about them (a man taking control of a dark God's body, a Demigoddess shapeshifter), and they could have an interesting story.

They just lack that good, proper run that would make them huge. Sorta like the X-Men had with Claremont. The problem is, Alpha Flight is too much of a "starter run" book, and no major-league writers seem interested in them in the slightest.

There's a few key problems I can figure out:

1) The main cast is TOO iconic, but not quite interesting enough- Everyone agrees that the book needs Mac, Sasquatch, probably Heather, Snowbird and the twins to be THE Alpha Flight team... but none of these characters are overly popular. If you don't use them (like the 1997 series didn't), the Flight's few fans will revolt and snot all over the book. If you DO use them, then the same old fans won't really care.

2) No good villains. The Master of the World is at-best a standard Dr. Doom-ish megalomaniacal villain, even if he does have a unique origin (one M&M main universe character rips it off directly- some caveman-changed-by-aliens thing). The Great Beasts are a fallacy in that no fan is going to give a crap about a bunch of giant standard monster-villains. There's some grandeur to them, but ultimately very little personality (it's for this reason that Cthulu-type villains always fail in comics, too- the fans care about the VILLAINS, and a villain with no personality is a failed one). Tanaraq was cool, I suppose.

3) No "Big Events" aside from the Great Beasts thing. They didn't really save the world a whole bunch, and a lot of their villains weren't world-stoppers. "Smaller Scale" stories work sometimes, but a super TEAM needs some grandeur.

4) The "Trainee Team" thing was kind of already being done in the X-books, and Byrne made most of them deliberately silly or one-note (an invincible chick, a duplicator who was a bad fighter). Most of their character designs were pretty bad and/or silly as well- Puck was short and hairy, Marrina had big googly black eyes, Box I looked like a Kirby reject, etc.

Though who knows? Check the update on the new book coming out: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=30845. With a creative team as strong as Greg Pak & Dale Eaglesham (co-creator of My Beloved Cyclone), you'd expect greatness (Chaos War notwithstanding). But seriously, ANOTHER "Evil Government" arc? That story was told ten times in the last bunch of AF runs, and it's always rather boring to read. I do get some entertainment out of Canada being the most evil nation on the face of the Earth, though.

Regarding "Chaos War"- yeah, what a piece of crap. "Mediocre" is too nice a word- it SUCKED. It was literally issue-after-issue of Mikaboshi's faceless hordes (see above about villains with no personality) easily defeating all the heroes and the gods, and then getting tricked at the very last second. I liked the idea behind the ending, but the story was so unbelievably weak and drawn-out that I can't believe it got the OK.


Pretty much agreed on every point, except for Mac, I honestly prefer Heather as team leader. While has probably too much of the team mom vibe, she's one of the few characters that had a solid and significant evolution from being a simple supporting cast member to fulll leadership.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Setothes » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:44 am

I prefered Mac as the somewhat-over-his-head team leader. Watching Alpha Flight in operation in the Byrne years, it seemed pretty obvious that Puck or Shaman or even Sasquatch or Aurora would have been better leaders.

Heather went from a plucky and interesting character with the body of a ten-year old boy, to a raving megalomaniac who threatened to kill people who disagreed with her and with breasts individually larger than her head when she put on the uniform. I haven't seen character assassination that bad since Storm went from gentle wise natural goddess with a subtle sense of humor to hypercritical foul-tempered boss-lady who decided it would be funny to beat up Cyclops to take the leadership of the X-Men from him.

I may not agree with Byrne on many issues, but I think that he was spot on that Heather was never meant to be a super-person. She could have even, post Mac's death, been team leader, functioning more like an Oracle or Athena or Amanda Waller, in a command-and-control role, not in a 'fly around and shoot people to death with my husband's old costume that doesn't have any tech in it...'

On a quasi-related tangent, I kinda wish Flashback had discovered that he was dead wrong about how his powers worked, and came back as a Madrox type duplicator, who called up his dupes from alternate quantum possibilities or unrealized alternate timelines, and not his own future, making him no longer vulnerable to getting killed if one of his dupes dies. I love duplicator characters, like Madrox, Timeshadow (of the Alliance of Evil, of which only Frenzy/Cargill still shows up anymore) and Flashback. (Or DC's Multiplex and Silent Majority.)

Earthmover is an interesting character. I've never heard of this guy! I like the earth elemental summoning power!
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Woodclaw » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:08 am

Setothes wrote:I prefered Mac as the somewhat-over-his-head team leader. Watching Alpha Flight in operation in the Byrne years, it seemed pretty obvious that Puck or Shaman or even Sasquatch or Aurora would have been better leaders.

Heather went from a plucky and interesting character with the body of a ten-year old boy, to a raving megalomaniac who threatened to kill people who disagreed with her and with breasts individually larger than her head when she put on the uniform. I haven't seen character assassination that bad since Storm went from gentle wise natural goddess with a subtle sense of humor to hypercritical foul-tempered boss-lady who decided it would be funny to beat up Cyclops to take the leadership of the X-Men from him.


Ok this part I really missed, is it from the "modern" series of Alpha (aka Lobdell onwards), because I really never read them.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby catsi563 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:48 am

See thats where i disagreed. i always felt it was the opposite. it was Heather that was ""In over her head"" so to speak, and Mac that ended up changing for the worst, Mac that ended up pulling a cyclops and becoming High Jerk in charge.

With Heather you had a strong character who wasnt ready to lead in ehr own mind, but capable of it mroe then she thought she was. Puck provided the experience, Sasquatch provided the scuentific mind she could bounce ideas off of, Shaman and Snow bird provided the mystic knowledge and wisdom. together the entire core team became a living entity that with the exceptions and vaguries of the writers really worked.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:10 pm

Nope, it was the post-Byrne, post-Mac era of Bill Mantlo. The two issues from this era I have feature Heather being a bit over her head, but also kind of mean and bitchy to everyone. She all but threatens to off Goblyn, actively rips on her, and is prone to being "bossy" (though of course, men tend to stereotype any woman in charge as "bossy" or a "Dragon Lady" so maybe she just comes across that way due to subtle sexism).

Yeah, Flashback was interesting, but as I'll note, they seemed to make zero effort to make him even be a casually-decent fighter by superhero standards. He seemed to be an obvious Joke/Mort Character.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Kreuzritter » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:49 pm

regarding lil and Box (when you get to him), well, i've rather liked this snippet from MODOK: Reign Delay

and yes, we canucks are that serious about our hockey
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:21 pm

In M.O.D.O.K.'s defense, the Leafs DO suck. They've missed the playoffs for HOW many years now? "Canada's Team" my ass.

Next up: Four guys from "The Flight". It was a one-shot book from 1992, by Scott Lobdell the Sucky, featuring Wolverine leading the precursor to Alpha Flight into combat. Their fight was a disaster, and the team quickly split up. Most of the characters were never seen again.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Armadillo, Guardian, Puck, Marrina, D. Lil

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Image

Great, now I have cheesy '80s movie themes stuck in my head now. Thanks, Alpha Flight!

SAINT ELMO (Elmo Erasmus)
Created By:
Bob Furman, Scott Lobdell & Pat Broderick
First Appearance: Alpha Flight Special #1 (June 1992)
Role: Retcon Rookie
Group Affiliations: The Flight (Precursor to Alpha Flight)
PL 7 (105)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Insight 4 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 6, Teamwork

Powers:
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

"Light Body" Alternate Form (Activation -1) [-1]
Insubstantial 3 [15]
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]

"Turn Things Into Light and Absorb Into Himself" Damage 8 (Flaws: Limited to Objects) Linked to Weaken Toughness 10 (Extras: Objects Only +0) (14) -- [15]
    AE: Dazzle Visuals 8 (Quirk: Limited to Degree of Objects he's Absorbed -2) (14)
Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Light Transformation +6 (+8 Damage & Weaken, DC 23 & 18)
Dazzle Visuals +6 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2, Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Weakness (Over-doing It)- Saint Elmo can destroy objects of up to ten tons in size, but higher levels will leave him very physically drained. Moreover, something the size of a nuclear missile will straight-up kill him if he absorbs it into himself.

Total: Abilities: 32 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 44 / Defenses: 16 (105)

-Saint Elmo's a one shot character from "The Flight", based off of the Patron Saint of Sailors (and not a certain lame Brat Pack movie). He claimed to be some kind of immortal god and he was generally pretty goofy, then sacrificed himself to save the team from a nuclear explosion. And that was the last of him- a Heroic Sacrifice in his first appearance.

-Powerful but lacking the accuracy of full-blown heroes; he could turn objects into light and absorb them (which I chose to stat as a Corrosion-type thing, since that's an identical effect, really-- Transform into Light is quibbly and isn't a permanent effect like Weakn & Damage are), pass through solid objects, and can fly. Nothing I can find says he can Dazzle people, but since he's made out of light, I figured I'd add that in as a logical Alt-Effect. As a result, he ends up as an actual PC-level PL 7 (105) build, not that I'd recommend playing as him.

---

Image

GROUNDHOG (Sean Bernard)
Created By:
Bob Furman, Scott Lobdell & Pat Broderick
First Appearance: Alpha Flight Special #1 (June 1992)
Role: Retroactive Rookie
Group Affiliations: The Flight, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police
PL 7 (82)
STRENGTH
1/7 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat 1 (+5)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (RCMP Officer) 5 (+7)
Insight 4 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+7)
Perception 4 (+6)
Persuasion 4 (+4)
Vehicles 5 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 2 (Pistol, +5), Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Groundhog Terraforming Suit" (Flaws: Removable) [25]
Enhanced Strength 6 (12)
Protection 7 (Extras: Impervious 3) (10)

"Terraforming" Burrowing 8 (16 mph) (8) -- (9)
    AE: Flight 3 (16 mph) (6)
-- (31 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Suit Strength +5 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Pistol +6 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +1 (+8 Suit), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (RCMP)- Sean is a cop on the run, after some people on his own force (whom he had informed upon for drug-running) went after him.

Total: Abilities: 22 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 25 / Defenses: 11 (82)

-Behold, it is here! The build of Groundhog, a guy who was a one-shot character introduced in "The Flight", the pre-team to Alpha Flight (along with St. Elmo, Stitch & Smart Alec, all retcon characters on the rookie squad). The character failed big-time, quitting in that issue, declaring that his terraforming suit was lame, and that if Mac Hudson liked it so much, HE should wear it. He's such a nobody, no site I could find for 2e had stats for him, but it looks like Wikipedia, Alphanex and the Handbook Appendix all got around to it by now. The terra-forming suit was later formed into what became the Guardian costume. Sean Bernard was an RCMP officer investigating his partners for drug trafficking, by the by. He hasn't appeared since his one appearance.

-Standard "Guy in Power Armour" build, minus anything that's reasonably decent or effective. He's basically a brick who can dig (and fly, poorly). He's PL 6.5 on defense, PL 6 on offense, being really pathetic overall since he's basically an Advanced Cop build plus a suit.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:36 am, edited 3 times in total.
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