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Elohim wrote:What i'm seeing is Energy-Controllers, Mystics, & Psychics using VE & AE to stack ALOT of unrelated powers under the heading " Cosmic Power/Magic/Psionics ", which to me, looks like abuse
Doggie wrote:My thought on the AE stuff is, that as the GM, you should feel comfortable with any AE that they are trying to use, it should be similar to the original power or related in some way that they can't just use any power because it's an alternate.
I have an experienced player using Variable on one of the sheets he sent, I'm not comfortable with it at all, and he's spend 91 points on his powers alone to do it. I think I'm going to have to have to step in and kinda mute this so he gets back on par with everyone else.
Doggie wrote:I think I may have developed this problem myself. One of my players is building a second battlesuit, which I told him he could do as an alternate power (I don't mind that much). However, he wants to use this second one as an internal skin ride inside the larger first suit.
- To which I say that you are switching to the larger one if you put it on.
Doggie wrote:But, out of no where, today he says he is alternating his Flight 8 with Speed 16. He's been watching Tron too much.
- My answer to this is that a speed of 125,000MPH would do sever damage to everything around him. I also really feel like this would mash the toes of the Super-Speedster of the group (who only managed SS 8 ), and severely corrupt the balance of the game.
Doggie wrote:His only reply regarding it so far is that he had to spend all of the alternate powers points, but that he would look for mods on it.
Short of the above, do I have any other option to this?
Elohim wrote:The more i look at it, the more Alternate Effect/Power seems like a HUGE mistake by M&M & something to seriously consider limiting with any possible 4th Edition. Players lump too many powers under the banner " Alternate Effect " with full knowledge of what they're doing.
Elohim wrote:i've read comics since i was a kid ( '70's to present ) & other than the few Paragon-types, those heroes had NICHES - they did something - ONE THING ( combat, energy control, telepathy, powerhouse, speed, ect. ) at a superhuman level, which left room for other NICHE heroes to have a place of their own in a storyline. I checked out DCA at the local RPG shop & noted there were NO JLAers that had as many Alternate Effects as the posts i've seen - not even Superman
(And by the internal logic, if the GM won't let them power stunt that power, he shouldn't have let them Alternate Effect it, either; the latter is simply the more permanent version of the former.)
Victim wrote:(And by the internal logic, if the GM won't let them power stunt that power, he shouldn't have let them Alternate Effect it, either; the latter is simply the more permanent version of the former.)
I wouldn't say that necessarily true. There's a huge difference between doing something situationally at cost via Extra Effort as opposed to being able do it every round. To use my brother's example, if there's a sort of mass battle scene, it's cool for the duplicator to break out a huge number of guys and say "who's outnumbered now?" OTOH, being able to make a 1000 guys normally can be pretty freaking annoying and often overpowered.
Note that the 1e version of APs involved effect categories. You could get an AP at feat cost if it was something you already had a power in. OTOH, if you lacked something from that category, then you'd have to start by buying a power in that area first. So you could get Dazzle off Blast via a feat, but not Heal.
Uhm, 1e didn't really have alternate powers in the sense we think of them; it simply had a discount for connecting a new power to an old one. Are you thinking of some 2e variant, perhaps? Because what you describe here doesn't seem to relate to any core version of M&M I know of, but it does sound a bit like some of the variants of 2e arrays that appeared in the MaMa.
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