Referencing M&M2ed legally?

[XEI]

It seems there's a good amount of traction happening with M&M3e and I haven't heard much along the lines of supporting legacy 2ed products. I'm going to release Super Samurai Issue #1 in pieces as an experiment...

So, I was wondering: Is it legal to type "Intended for use with the M&M System" on the credits jargon?

In the previous Superlink FAQ it mentioned to refer to the M&M RPG as "M&M System". Does that make it "legal text" without infringing on the M&M trademark (aka not requiring permission or further legal text stating rights were given)?

I searched and searched today for anything released for the legacy M&M using the Misfits OGL Supers 2e logo, but found nothing. I also wanted something just plain B&W so I created my own placeholder logo "MM2ED SUPERS COMPATIBLE". Way I figure it (and I could be wrong here as well) "MM2ED" and/or "MM2ED SUPERS" isn't infringing on the M&M trademark due to the removal of the & symbol... but this is plain assumption...

Anyone help !

[XEI]

Actually... the more I look at the "MM2ED SUPERS" the more it seems wrong to use... or if not wrong... then inappropriate perhaps.

Even the "M&M System" being referenced seems inappropriate now. Anyone from Green Ronin want to brutally blunt about this? Even personally opinionated would do just to put my mind at rest !

[Gilwen]

I am not a lawyer. By my interpretation of the OGL what you propose would violate the terms of the OGL if you did not have permission to use GR's PI or other trademarks.

gil

[XEI]

Ya I opted against anything with "MM" in it. Just felt wrong and my intent would never be to provoke negative feelings in any form concerning something like this. Not worth it.

[FuzzyBoots]

So is your only concern over the Misfits logo that it's by default in color?

[arkham618]

You know, I'd like clarification on this as well. What options -- if any -- are there for legally supporting 2e now that the Superlink license has been discontinued?

[Gilwen]

I'm not an GR staffer but I am familar with the OGL license that MnM 2e is published under. I'm also not a lawyer so get the salt out and take a few grains

There is nothing stopping you from supporting the 2e ruleset by publishing under the OGL. Under the OGL what you can't do is refer to any of their PI (product identity), trademarks, or other non-open game contenct material. So that means you can't use Hero Points, you can't use their logo, you can't claim capatibility with MnM, etc without their permission.

I know misfit games at one time was working on a replacement logo but I'm not sure where that ended up.
http://www.misfit-studios.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=512

Gil

[FuzzyBoots]

I think the best bet is the Misfits logo if people start using it consistently. It will create its own association.

[arkham618]

I think the best bet is the Misfits logo if people start using it consistently. It will create its own association.

The branding is of secondary concern. How would one go about actually identifying a product as a third-party M&M 2e supplement and referencing the rules? For example, would it be permissible to include somewhere in the document "This product is intended for use with the Second Edition of the popular OGL-based super-hero role-playing game by Green Ronin," or would even mentioning GR be verboten? Also, GR claims ownership of terms like Power Points and Hero Points. Is it just the terms that cannot be referenced, or the entire mechanics? If the mechanics are restricted, the system is gimped to the point of uselessness. If it's just the names that are off limits, could one not simply use alternative labels (e.g., Build Points and Fate Points) and note somewhere that this is being done?

[Gilwen]

you can't directly associate or claim compatibility using the OGL to the MnM2e rules without permission from GR. The phrase "This product is intended for use with the Second Edition of the popular OGL-based super-hero role-playing game by Green Ronin" isn't viable with the OGL without permission of Green Ronin since it refers to their trademarks and IP which the OGL restricts. The only place you can refer to mutants and masterminds is yoru section 15 where the section 15 from the MnM2e book has to be copied exactly in your book adding any additional OGL reference material you may have used.

You could rely on normal copyright law and make compatibility claims but you'd really want a lawyer to review and you lose the safe harbor of the OGL by doing that because you couldn't use the stuff verbatium. Kenzer and Co went then route when producing some DnD compatible stuff for ADnD but one of their owners was a copyright lawyer himself.

Aside from their delcared PI from what I can tell the system mechanics are completely open. Hero POints and power points can be swapped out for action pionts, etc by my reading of the OGL. These are really just renamed OGC mechanics; so the mechanic can be used but the name cannot be.

Misfits was attempting to bridge the branding gap with their ogl supers 2e logo but this has the problem of if you custoemrs don't know it then it won't be effective branding.

HTH,

Bryan