The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:47 pm

I would like to think that the answer to that one would be 'No - but they are admittedly going through a bit of a rough patch recently."
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:54 pm

I guess so.

Anyways, how's that multiverse coming along? :D
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Re: A Selection from the Infinite Earths

Post by Libra » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:38 pm

Earth-1

The year, so far as visitors have been able to ascertain, is 1960 - in the past two decades superhumans have been the targets of the House Un-American Affairs Committee, the subjects of a witch-hunt, wary vigilantes and government agents; A dark age gilded by the Heroism of Mankind and the power of the superman was brought to an all too early end before it could become truly Golden.

When the foremost assembly of superhumans committed themselves to retirement, most thought that world would return to normal, mistaking the superman-and-women for the remarkable progenies of an equally remarkable era, unable to exist in the mundane reality of everyday history - the wise knew that the World was only getting stranger and the next generation of supermen would be still greater than their predecessors.

Within the past five years Superhumans have once again become Superheroes to the general public, thanks partly to the efforts of older stalwarts once more returned to the fray, but primarily due to the sterling efforts of the New Generation which debuted in a climate of general suspicion, paranoia and prejudice yet given hope to all. The last of the Old and best of the New, come together, have beaten the most terrible alien threat this Earth has yet seen and become friends in the process.

In the sky Superheroes old and new, brand new heroes and new heroes cast in the mould of the predecessors who are always their inspiration (and in some cases their progenitors), strange new entities national, spiritual and cosmic, strange new worlds, life-forms and civilisations hitherto-unknown to Humanity, new prodigies in every field of science, a Justice League pitted against legion after legion of foes dedicated to bringing Doom to Humankind ... or just robbing them blind.

On Earth-1 Humanity stands on the edge of a New Frontier and Superhumans stand or hover right alongside.

Earth-2

On Earth-2 Superheroes aren't just icons, they're a venerable institution.

Since the debut of Superman in 1938 (and possibly even before that) superhumans have gone from strength to strength, first as individuals, then banded together into legendary assemblies like the JSA and the All-Star Squadron. With many of the first mystery men still fighting fit (albeit no longer at their peak) and with the ranks of the righteous expanded in the 1970s by the offspring and protégés who created Infinity Inc - who have become storied veterans in their own right - and further added to generation after generation by new superhumans, the legends of Earth-2 have gone from strength to strength.

This stately progress has ended not long since, but still more than a decade ago; Superman vanished, no-one knows where to or for what reason, no-one knows if he is alive or dead or just retired and people are starting to panic. The elder generation which took its lead from him are finally beginning to surrender to the weariness of decades of service and slowly-encroaching age; the younger generation are starting to come apart as they debate just what this means for them - and more importantly what this should mean for the World.

Less immediate but no less important are the questions hanging over the youngest generation; Absent one of the most reassuring foundations of their social and extra-social systems, confronted by an almost exponential superhuman birth rate Humanity begins to doubt itself and fear for its place in the World - as do the youngest superhumans, growing up in a world where the old role models are retired, dead or busy trying to cope, they're asking questions only their seniors could answer well and increasingly coming up with answers all their own, some of them brilliant, some of them iconoclastic, not all of them pleasant.

Tensions social, political and personal are on the rise.

Questions are being asked that need answering and if a newly-repurposed Justice Society can't come up with the right answers, then an entire generation, Human and Superhuman, may go to wrack and ruin - or worse yet may come to see these whispers of doubt as the first ticks of a clock counting down to Doomsday.

Earth-3

Earth-3 resembles Our Own only in that it seems almost diametrically opposite; civilisation grows more corrupt by the day, the law becomes a cipher or worse yet a bludgeon to beat the unfortunate with, crime becomes the governing institution and while death becomes cheap, life becomes more expensive than many can afford. History is a reflection in a funhouse mirror and

That's what happens when the most successful assembly of superhumans on the planet are Villains; The Crime Syndicate of Amerika, a collection of the most powerful, nastiest and self-centred superhumans in Creation have made Supervillains into their Mob and remade the World in their image, twisting not just civilisation but History itself in their image and they have not the slightest intention of stopping there.

You see they're not just inhumanly powerful, insanely self-centred and just plain nasty - they're also bored.

Their confidence in their own supremacy remains complete (despite the fact that they are far from unchallenged, even by their own Made Men), but their satisfaction is not equal to it. They yearn for NEW challenges, new frontiers to ravage, new civilisations to exploit for fun and profit, new suckers to victimise. They've turned their eyes to the Multiverse, seeking that which they may devour or with which they might amuse themselves.

This makes this the perfect time for the local Good Guys to sneak up and kick them in the posterior.

Earth-4

The history of Earth-4 is a strange place which seems to owe more to fiction than to fact; The Ghost who Walks and Frankenstein's Monster are real for starters and even the lives of local version of historical characters like Billy the Kid, Wyatt Earp and Buffalo Bill Cody seem closer to the legends told about them than the biographies historians on Our Earth (and several others) have been able to put together about them.

What's even stranger is the fact that many citizens have never seen how strange their world is, many therefore STILL regard the local superheroes as peculiarities, even where they don't see them as being just plain perverts. They're not entirely wrong of course, but not every superhuman fits into those two slots and even fewer fit into them seamlessly. Much like on any Earth Some superhumans ARE Good and some ARE Bad, some are Magic and some are more Scientific, some are mortal and one at least is more cosmic than is good for a once-mortal mind - but while the diversity of the superhuman community is no less than on any Earth, there is one constant.

They're all seen as living assault weapons, able to tilt the balance of power in the World catastrophically in favour of one side or the other, in a Cold War that has long outlasted our own; the most powerful have been courted, the rest subjected to repeated attempts to marginalise them, some of them less gentle than others and some of the Heroes have reacted less than well to them, which has led to some nasty incidents.

Heaven help us, Superhero comics went out of style for most of the 20th Century!

Which all goes a long way to explain why most the new generation of Earth-4 superheroes have gone as far underground as characters able to fly, generate night, manipulate Atomic Energy for Fun and Justice or just plain walk around without a face can go - along the way sometimes stumbling into the living legends, artefacts and hard facts about the mad and beautiful past so many have been blinded to by a present most misunderstand to be dark and hopeless.

Maybe they'll go Public again someday, but until then the superhumans of Earth-4 will hug the shadows, fight for Justice (or just commit crimes), a counter-culture determined to watch the Watchmen and try to avoid repeating their mistakes.

Earth-S

Against all expectation the present is a Golden Age; A family of champions, empowered by the Magic Word of an Ancient Wizard ward the World from EVIL; underneath them, yet by no means in their shadow, heroic individuals emboldened by newly-sewn super-suits or the ancient traditions of the Gentleman Adventurer and armed with little more than wits, coupled with Two-Fisted Grit keep step with the pace of the Modern World; A Society of Wrong-Doers shamelessly and without Irony call themselves 'Monster' and 'Evil'; Wizards walk or at least enchant the Earth, even as Science closes the gaps with Magic, at times almost seamlessly; Worms from Venus and Caveman Kings compete for the Domination of the World of just for Pride's Sake; Strange New Worlds are discovered and Lost Cities re-discovered in the Far Corners of a World very like our own.

It is a magical time to be alive, like a good little boy's maddest and most beautiful dreams brought to life, as if by magic; there has never been a time like the present on Earth-S, for though the Great Depression is scarcely in the past, the Old West seems as close as the flight of an arrow can reach and The Wonderful World of The Future still closer.

Yet for all that this is a Golden Age where the most horrible tyranny of Europe perished at the hands of audacious, unprecedented Hope before it could truly take the stage, there are many who, if not stopped would take it's place or simply outdo it in base villainy and (far, far worse than this) all the vast and awful potential unfulfilled in Germany remains, albeit channeled into a single superman able to set Earth aflame.

He is about to meet him match, as the Marvel Family (and many others) meet it's black sheep in battle against the backdrop of a One-Man World War utterly unlike any Earth has ever seen; if Our Heroes are destined to win, then they cannot, will not do so alone.

A Golden Age needs guarding no less than any other.

Earth-X

A War that once never changed HAS changed and not even for the better; A Nazi World Order was built by the covert efforts of one interfering time-traveller, was maintained against great and enduring resistance, then died with it's villainous extra-temporal preserver at the hands of the Supermen that were it's Greatest Achievement.

These champions have sought to bind up the wounds of a savaged World, have sought to bring Peace to a Planet which has not know the meaning of that old word within a Human lifetime, have rejected the tyranny of the past regime ... yet they cannot wholly reject it's legacy, are still children of National Socialism and Fascism, still the heirs of the most horrible tyranny known to Humankind made more terrible still by absolute power.

They must still be fought, to the last round, to the last ounce of strength, to the very limits of Human and Superhuman Potential, must be fought so that their Glamour and Principle does not succeed where efficient tyranny failed - if undefeated, this new Axis of Superhuman Individuals will remake this World and in doing so forever taint it with the image they themselves were cast in

They are legends born for Darkness and must therefore be fought not merely with propaganda but in the Flesh, fought by those who epitomise Liberty, Freedom, Justice; They will be, for although Freedom was long ago bound or hedged about by chains, those who fight for it endure and trust that they will triumph - for on this Earth, above all others, those who love Freedom will not tamely let it fade away nor will they ever cease to fight on in the face of death or worse than Death, a fate long laid out for themselves and for all the World, nor have they ever allowed Freedom to fail entirely in the face of nigh-unbeatable odds.

Even a Better Earth could not boast better champions.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:20 am

Alright, so this wasn't as well-received an article as I'd hoped, but I will have you know that I'm willing to try again - there's an idea (originally put forward by Kurt Busiek, as I recall - check the 'Justice League/Avengers crossover' article on wikipedia) for a sort-of-crossover which has always fascinated me:

What if the Marvel Universe ran according to classic DC rules?

What if DC characters were run through the classic Marvel guidelines?

I'm hoping to have my idea of the answer typed up ASAP.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by greycrusader » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:19 pm

Libra, I actually enjoyed your takes on the DC Multiverse Earths a lot, and was contemplating doing my own Earths 6, 7, 8, and 9 to fill out the first ten roster. But I'm hardpressed for time this week, and I'll be lucky to do a short post on the ATT later tonight.

My vague notions were of an Earth-6 that corresponed to the original Pre-First Crisis Earth, where Lady Quark (how's that for obscure) hailed-advanced science, no magic, superhumans were venerated as mankind's champions, and Great Britain still had the empire, including the "colonies". There may have been Tesla-tech, since some birth defects (such as dwarfism) were common, maybe due to background radiation levels.

Earth-8 would be a world where Kyle Rayner was the first Green Lantern, Jason Rusch the original Firestorm, Huntress was a Batgirl and Catwoman analogue rolled into one, and superheroes were just coming back in full force, after the last major heroic age (the Bronze Age, which ended in the early 80s).

Earths 7 and 9 I was still mulling over....

Maybe you have a few ideas?

All my best.
Last edited by greycrusader on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:37 pm

Thank you for the kind words Grey Crusader - I'll do my best to come up with some ideas, so I'll have to get on with the research required when I can! :D
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by greycrusader » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:27 pm

There was an Earth-D that popped up in a DC one-shot celebrating the 20th aniversary of COIE-it featured a mulit-ethnic JLA, in what appeared to be a more Silver Age influenced universe. The heroes weren't grim, they enjoyed the work they did, the villains were rarely murderous or pointlessly destructive. Many of the major heroes were married and/or had children. Maybe that could serve as an inspiration for Earth-7?

It honestly reminded me a bit of Gruenwald's original Squadron Supreme series.

Earth-9...maybe a DCU parallel world where the tone was more Marvelesque, as you touched upon? Not necessarily the Heroes of Angor or the Stan Lee versions of the JLA, just DC icons assigned to Marvel roles perhaps? Superman more in a Captain Mar-Vell role, Batman as a Tony Stark analogue, Wonder Woman fulfilling Captain America's place?

Then there was Morrison's Earth-17 heroes, were Superman was a clone grown from alien DNA (Overman) and the JLA were also based off alien tech-gene splicing from Clark, an extraterrestrial ring, and so on.

Do any of these inspire?
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:08 pm

They do, in fact! :mrgreen:
Earth-9...maybe a DCU parallel world where the tone was more Marvelesque, as you touched upon? Not necessarily the Heroes of Angor or the Stan Lee versions of the JLA, just DC icons assigned to Marvel roles perhaps? Superman more in a Captain Mar-Vell role, Batman as a Tony Stark analogue, Wonder Woman fulfilling Captain America's place?
I was actually planning to try my hand at a personal take on the Squadron Supreme universe to satisfy the 'DC Icons run by Marvel Rules' idea, since they are, quite explicitly, an homage to Distinguished Competiton - besides, it gives me an opportunity to try my hand at pureeing Squadron Supreme and Supreme Power together, as well as the opportunity to see what comes out the other end! :mrgreen:

As for the 'Marvel Run by DC Rules' I was thinking of either trying my hand at fleshing out Angor as an Alien World in a DC Universe or mixing elements from various Marvel pastiches/parodies (like the original and the more modern take on the Champions of Angor and perhaps even The Maximums from Superman/Batman*) on their own Earth in the DC Multiverse.
*Two by-the-way points;

(1) Does anyone else wish they'd just call the series World's Finest? (Partly to avoid the opportunity for shipping jokes and partly because World's Finest just SOUNDS cooler).

(2) Would anyone else REALLY like to see Ed McGuiness (or, I must admit, Frank Quitely) turn his talents to redesigning any version of Angor you'd care to name?
Earth-8 would be a world where Kyle Rayner was the first Green Lantern, Jason Rusch the original Firestorm, Huntress was a Batgirl and Catwoman analogue rolled into one, and superheroes were just coming back in full force, after the last major heroic age (the Bronze Age, which ended in the early 80s).
Not bad! For some reason I keep imagining splicing this setting with elements from the Dini/Timm DCAU, although I don't quite know why.
There was an Earth-D that popped up in a DC one-shot celebrating the 20th aniversary of COIE-it featured a mulit-ethnic JLA, in what appeared to be a more Silver Age influenced universe. The heroes weren't grim, they enjoyed the work they did, the villains were rarely murderous or pointlessly destructive. Many of the major heroes were married and/or had children. Maybe that could serve as an inspiration for Earth-7?
The numbering certainly seems apropos! :wink:

One bizarre idea that just occurred to me is to mix Young Justice and Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but I'm not sure how practical that is.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Phrozen » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Libra wrote:Alright, so this wasn't as well-received an article as I'd hoped, but I will have you know that I'm willing to try again - there's an idea (originally put forward by Kurt Busiek, as I recall - check the 'Justice League/Avengers crossover' article on wikipedia) for a sort-of-crossover which has always fascinated me:

What if the Marvel Universe ran according to classic DC rules?

What if DC characters were run through the classic Marvel guidelines?

I'm hoping to have my idea of the answer typed up ASAP.
I liked it. I just don't have a lot of free time this week. Exams and such things tend to eat a lot of hours.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by greycrusader » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:31 pm

Libra wrote:They do, in fact! :mrgreen:
Earth-9...maybe a DCU parallel world where the tone was more Marvelesque, as you touched upon? Not necessarily the Heroes of Angor or the Stan Lee versions of the JLA, just DC icons assigned to Marvel roles perhaps? Superman more in a Captain Mar-Vell role, Batman as a Tony Stark analogue, Wonder Woman fulfilling Captain America's place?
I was actually planning to try my hand at a personal take on the Squadron Supreme universe to satisfy the 'DC Icons run by Marvel Rules' idea, since they are, quite explicitly, an homage to Distinguished Competiton - besides, it gives me an opportunity to try my hand at pureeing Squadron Supreme and Supreme Power together, as well as the opportunity to see what comes out the other end! :mrgreen:

As for the 'Marvel Run by DC Rules' I was thinking of either trying my hand at fleshing out Angor as an Alien World in a DC Universe or mixing elements from various Marvel pastiches/parodies (like the original and the more modern take on the Champions of Angor and perhaps even The Maximums from Superman/Batman*) on their own Earth in the DC Multiverse.
*Two by-the-way points;

(1) Does anyone else wish they'd just call the series World's Finest? (Partly to avoid the opportunity for shipping jokes and partly because World's Finest just SOUNDS cooler).

(2) Would anyone else REALLY like to see Ed McGuiness (or, I must admit, Frank Quitely) turn his talents to redesigning any version of Angor you'd care to name?
Earth-8 would be a world where Kyle Rayner was the first Green Lantern, Jason Rusch the original Firestorm, Huntress was a Batgirl and Catwoman analogue rolled into one, and superheroes were just coming back in full force, after the last major heroic age (the Bronze Age, which ended in the early 80s).
Not bad! For some reason I keep imagining splicing this setting with elements from the Dini/Timm DCAU, although I don't quite know why.
There was an Earth-D that popped up in a DC one-shot celebrating the 20th aniversary of COIE-it featured a mulit-ethnic JLA, in what appeared to be a more Silver Age influenced universe. The heroes weren't grim, they enjoyed the work they did, the villains were rarely murderous or pointlessly destructive. Many of the major heroes were married and/or had children. Maybe that could serve as an inspiration for Earth-7?
The numbering certainly seems apropos! :wink:

One bizarre idea that just occurred to me is to mix Young Justice and Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but I'm not sure how practical that is.
All your concepts sound promising-and I'm happy I was able to provide inspiration. I think the key to doing a DCU parallel world with the feel of a 1970s/early 1980s Marvel series would be to avoid outright pastiches of Marvel characters, but just replicate the feel. Most super-heroes aren't nearly as trusted or admired, there's more military/federal interference, and the tone is generally more somber. Maybe aliens take the place of mutants in terms of public suspicion?

I can see Earth-8 as having elements of the Timm-verse-a younger Batman, maybe even Dick Grayson as a legacy, Kyle Rayner picking up a ring handed down from Alan Scott to John Stewart to him (no Guardians of the Universe), a Connor Kent Superman (either a mutant or grown-up clone from cells found on a Kryptonian probe), Selina Kyle as the vigilante rob-from-the-rich-and-give-to-Crime Alley heronie known as Huntress. Jason Rusch as Firestorm, a college student maybe merged with brilliant engineering professor John Henry Irons.

Again, I think an Earth-7 with multi-ethnic characters blended with both BATMAN: BAB and YJ would work very well-YJ is already diverse-black Aqualad, poor/working class Artemis (Arrowette), put Dick Grayson in the Earth-2 Robin outfit, replace Wonder Woman Diana with WW Nubia, Ryan Choi as the Atom, have a Doom Patrol with a hispanic Rita Farr (the name works), and the African American Orpheus (a killed-off Batman supporting character) replacing Nile Caulder (in this world Orpheus was disabled not killed). Play up the fun but not childish antics of the Silver Age, eg. Grodd can turn the JLA into apes, but no Abra Kadabra changing them into human bowling balls hurling toward TNT-filled bowling pins.

Or just use your own imagination.

All my best.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:57 pm

Sorry, I had a virus.

I really enjoyed this, Libra.

Though I want to know who the superheroes are on these various worlds.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:56 am

Libra, I actually enjoyed your takes on the DC Multiverse Earths a lot, and was contemplating doing my own Earths 6, 7, 8, and 9 to fill out the first ten roster. But I'm hardpressed for time this week, and I'll be lucky to do a short post on the ATT later tonight.
I liked it. I just don't have a lot of free time this week. Exams and such things tend to eat a lot of hours.
Sorry, I had a virus.
Please allow me to apologise, gentlemen - I shouldn't have let my personal crisis of confidence in my work get the better of me. Thank you for your kind words.
Or just use your own imagination.
I plan to do that AND borrow from your fine ideas - thank you once again for the Food for Thought.
Though I want to know who the superheroes are on these various worlds.
I doubt that I can produce EVERY Hero on all these worlds, but I'll do my best to hit the highlights, as a Get Well gift for you Charles - is there any world that you would particularly like to see highlighted?
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:58 pm

That was actually a serious question - I'm not sure which Earth I should start on! :roll:
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:51 pm

Golden Age Earth-2 would be interesting.

I could see Steve Rogers kept young and virile by the Super soldier serum and the US government sharing it with a select number of other heroes even if they can't mass produce it. Namor, of course, would be the BIG Ur-Hero in this world aside from the JSA.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Sidious » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:03 pm

I'll second Earth-2. Also I was wondering... no Zombie Earth?
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