Alternate Form question.

[Magpie]

Hi,

I have a character in my 3e game at the moment who has a 50-point Dynamic Array, the core power of which is Alternate Form (Ghost). My question is, since I made the array Dynamic, does that mean that all the powers in the Alternate Form are dynamic also? For example, could I activate his Alternate Form's immunities while also using his Blast power from outside the Alternate Form, but that's also in the array? Or do I have to commit all the points to the Alternate Form first? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks all!

[Phicksur]

Hi,

I have a character in my 3e game at the moment who has a 50-point Dynamic Array, the core power of which is Alternate Form (Ghost). My question is, since I made the array Dynamic, does that mean that all the powers in the Alternate Form are dynamic also? For example, could I activate his Alternate Form's immunities while also using his Blast power from outside the Alternate Form, but that's also in the array? Or do I have to commit all the points to the Alternate Form first? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks all!

With a dynamic array, you have to be able to pay for all the powers you have available at any given time with the points available in the array. Without knowing more numbers, I don't see how we can answer your question.

[Magpie]

This is the array, as created on HeroLab:

Voodoo (55 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], Activation: Move Action
Concealment: Concealment 3 (6 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], Sense - Hearing, Sense - Sight (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Flight: Flight 3 (6 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], Speed: 16 miles/hour, 250 feet/round (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Immunity: Immunity 17 (17 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], Critical Hits, Entrapment, Life Support (Personal - Permanent)
Insubstantial: Insubstantial 4 (20 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 5/r], Incorporeal (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Spirit-Bolt: Blast 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], DC 24 (Standard - Ranged, 225/450/900 ft. - Instant)
Summoned Staff: Damage 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], DC 24 (Standard - Close - Instant)
Wall of Succor: Shapeable Area Force Field 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 4/r], +9 Toughness; Shapeable Area: 30 feet, cubic, Impervious, Selective
(Personal - Sustained)

Hope that helps.

[Magpie]

The first four powers are from the Alternate Form,. in case that wasn't obvious..

[Phicksur]

This is the array, as created on HeroLab:

Voodoo (55 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], Activation: Move Action
Concealment: Concealment 3 (6 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], Sense - Hearing, Sense - Sight (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Flight: Flight 3 (6 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], Speed: 16 miles/hour, 250 feet/round (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Immunity: Immunity 17 (17 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], Critical Hits, Entrapment, Life Support (Personal - Permanent)
Insubstantial: Insubstantial 4 (20 PP)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 5/r], Incorporeal (Free - Personal - Sustained)
Spirit-Bolt: Blast 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 2/r], DC 24 (Standard - Ranged, 225/450/900 ft. - Instant)
Summoned Staff: Damage 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 1/r], DC 24 (Standard - Close - Instant)
Wall of Succor: Shapeable Area Force Field 9 (alternate)
[0 active, 0/48 PP, 4/r], +9 Toughness; Shapeable Area: 30 feet, cubic, Impervious, Selective
(Personal - Sustained)

Hope that helps.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

*collapses on the floor from lack of breath*

*recovers*

Herolab! My one weakness! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!

*collapses again*

*recovers, gains a hero point for the complication*

Just for the record, I don't use Herolab. I understand that it doesn't handle complicated characters well. That might be why it isn't being helpful to you.

Ok, so the primary effect is 56 points (Primary effect (6 + 6 + 17 + 20) + 1 for being the dynamic base + 6 for the three other dynamic effects). The whole dynamic array is 55 points, so I don't see it is even working now. You haven't paid enough for it.

Assuming you poured 56 points into it, the dynamic part isn't helping at all because you can either be a ghost, or you can use your staff, bolt, AND wall as dynamic effects, provided you don't pour more than 49 points into their combined total (don't ask me to do the math right now how much each one costs, I can't read all that gobbledygook).

I am not absolutely sure how it works with dynamic effects, but you might be able to (for example) pour 6 pp into your primary effect (for just the Concealment), and 43 points into your bolt (for part of the ranks of damage) but that seems very ugly.

[Magpie]

I'd have to agree...but dropping a bunch of points into a power purely to justify the dynamic array seems even uglier. Ah well, back to the drawing-board.

[FuzzyBoots]

Official answer from 2E. Steve Kenson recommends that if a dynamic slot has multiple powers, activating that slot includes spending at least the minimum amount of power points to turn on all powers. Personally, I roll with requiring mildly proportionate amounts, but that does involve math.

Incidentally, if you export as BBCode, it should come out more clearly. I think it may be missing the indentation to indicate at what level the parts are.

[FuzzyBoots]

Looks like you're using 3E, which means I'm of limited use to you. Something like the following, right?

Powers:
Array 24 (default power: alternate form)
. . Alternate Form 10 (Default; [6 active, 46/48 PP, 5/r-2]; Custom 2 (2 pp unspent))
. . . . Ghost (Powers: Concealment 3, Flight 3, Immunity 16, Insubstantial 4)
. . . . . . Concealment 3 (sense - hearing, sense - sight)
. . . . . . Flight 3 (Speed: 50 mph, 440 ft./rnd)
. . . . . . Immunity 16 (critical hits, entrapment, life support)
. . . . . . Insubstantial 4 (Incorporeal)
. . Blast 9 (Array; [9 active, 46/48 PP, 2/r], DC 24)
. . Damage 9 (Array; [0 active, 46/48 PP, 1/r], DC 24)
. . Force Field 9 (Array; [0 active, 46/48 PP, 4/r], +9 Toughness; Affects Others (Only), Shapeable Area (9 cubes of 125 cu. ft. (5x5x5) - General), Impervious, Selective Attack)

Power Settings:
Ghost (Powers: Concealment 3, Flight 3, Immunity 16, Insubstantial 4)

Basic answer, based on Steve Kenson's answer, is that you could probably get away with less than full Concealment (turning on only hearing or only sight for example), and you could spend fewer points in Flight, but the descriptor of Insubstantial is that " You do not gain the ability to assume lower-ranked Insubstantial forms at higher ranks" and Immunity is similarly so, so if you're using any part of your Ghost form, you have to spend at least 2 (Concealment (Hearing)) + 2 (Flight 1) + 16 (Immunities) + 20 (Insubstantial 4) == 40 pp, so you're left with only 8 pp to use on something like your staff.

Also, on a side note, I don't think you can apply Shapeable directly onto Force Field, so above I've got it as an Affects Others (Only) to keep with your costs (and yes, the Shapeable Area in 2E was different. More sensible in my opinion {waves his cane}).