Maximum for Initiative?

[DracoDruid]

Hey everyone. This was probably asked before, but does Initiative has a Power Level Cap?

Since you can get +4 per 1 PP as often as you like, you could send this into the stratosphere.

[Arthur Eld]

Initiative has no cap that I've ever seen. There are official builds with more ranks in Improved Initiative than their PL. Speedsters commonly have sky-high initiative scores.

[roguescribner]

Though after a certain point, you're just burning pp. Does one really need a +50 initiative bonus? Just purchase Sieze Initiative if going first is that important. By and large, acting first (which has a one round benefit) doesn't seem as important as say not being surprised in combat or having high skills to reduce/increase the effectiveness of feints and the like.

[Murkglow]

...acting first (which has a one round benefit)...

It's really not a one round benefit. You get your first turn before anyone else, then you get your second turn before anyone else, and your third, fourth, ect... ect... Everytime your turn comes around you're getting that benefit.

That being said I do agree that there is a point where extra Initiative stops mattering. And in this game where Initiative can be bought up on its own you get into alot of situations were either the enemy has no extra initiative which makes any you bought pointless, or they have a ton (enemy speedsters) in which case you also need to have bought a ton or again it's worthless.

[roguescribner]

Aside from the first round, I don't see where the effect is really that beneficial. Initiative order can change after the first round, people can power stunt extra actions, etc. It's like boxing. Sure, you throwing the first punch is cool and all, but after that you're just trading blows. What happens matters more than when it happens in most cases.

Maybe it's just me. But I've never cared about having high initiative.

[Mr Mole]

Maybe it's just me. But I've never cared about having high initiative.

That line reminds me of a scene from The Gamers: Dorkness Rising... It's sad to admit that even here, there won't likely be more than a few other people who've even seen that movie, much less remember specific scenes...

[Murkglow]

The main advantage of going first (beyond surprise attacks and the like) is that you can somewhat dictate or influence what your enemies actions can be and/or how effective they will be. Say you spend your turn creating a barrier around your target. You've forced that character to spend his turn getting out/through it or remaining where he is. The same can be said for Afflictions or something like a grab, in any case you're imposing penalties or limits on their actions before they get the chance to make them. Whether this is turn 1 or turn 5 that advantage is just as relevant and powerful.

As for altering initiative, Extra Actions doesn't do that, it's not "another turn" and regardless it's not only a limited action (since it costs you fatigue/hero points) but its one that the person who went first can do and do better (they can hit you with two afflictions/whatever before you can even move). Readying and Delaying require that you give up your current turn to "change" were your next turn will be, you're not "gaining back" anything with that trade off (or "making up" for them going first) you're simply hoping for a better opportunity to come along.

To use your example, what you do is of course important but when you do it can make all the difference. Hitting your opponent with a punch that forces him away from you is/can be good, doing it before he landed that blow to your face would have been better and might have been the difference between winning and losing the fight.

[thaumonuclear]

The main advantage of going first (beyond surprise attacks and the like) is that you can somewhat dictate or influence what your enemies actions can be and/or how effective they will be. ... Whether this is turn 1 or turn 5 that advantage is just as relevant and powerful.

But that only really applies if you do it every round. If A (who went first) just throws a punch with his first action. B can be the one putting a Barrier around A. It doesn't matter that on Round 2, A is going first again, he now has to react to what B did.

[IronSledge]

Heh, this reminds me of a character they talked about in the old Critical Miss webzine. He put all his points into initiative boosting powers, to the extent that he was worthless at anything else. ("We started joking that his character's thought processes were so lightening-fast, he was already crippled by indecision before the rest of us had even realised anything was going down.") His player would always hold his actions and the other players dubbed him The Prevaricator.

[Murkglow]

But that only really applies if you do it every round. If A (who went first) just throws a punch with his first action. B can be the one putting a Barrier around A. It doesn't matter that on Round 2, A is going first again, he now has to react to what B did.

Sure but A is the one with that option, he can choose to "give up" his advantage if he should decide it was worth it. B has to do something exceptional/unexpected, wait for A to make a mistake/give up the advantage, or wait for bad luck to befall A (and hope for the same not to happen to him). Again B is waiting to see what A does.

[Dureign]

@IronSledge: You mean Procrastinator? A prevaricator is someone who lies.

[IronSledge]

@IronSledge: You mean Procrastinator? A prevaricator is someone who lies.

Nope.

[Dureign]

I guess I meant, didn't THEY mean procrastinator?

But anyway, I agree having massive amounts of Initiative is not very useful for anything but flavor after the first round.

[ronyon]

The real question about huge chuncks of Improved Inititive revolves around using them in an Array.
If you park your Array on the Improved Initive/Seize inititive slot, you can probably go first, and then shift to an offense/defense or movement slot.
This is only stopped by good taste, self restraint and/or a decent GM.