The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:03 am

I hope you guys don't mind, but I thought I'd share some of my thoughts regarding a beloved character, taken from some posts I made on the soon to be defunct DC Message Boards. So without further ado:

Ares Random Captain Marvel Thoughts, Part I


The Uniform: Minor tweaks to a classic outfit, the way updates should be.


Identity : Billy Batson needs to be in control of the Captain Marvel form, and the powers he wields cannot alter his personality directly, otherwise Black Adam never would have fallen because the powers would have turned him into the perfect hero. Instead, the power can influence the wielder the way any power can influence someone via human nature: it is a temptation to use that power in an unjust manner, one that Billy shows he can refuse by willingly returning to normal. That should be a big part of Billy's character, the fact that, unlike Shazam or Black Adam, Billy is willing to go back to being a normal kid, to try and do things on his own, and use the power only when it needs to be used.

I know some fans dislike Billy and Cap being one and the same, but its really the only way to cater to both fanbases, because even the ones who dislike the idea have said they wouldn't have a problem with it if it was done right. Well, here's the chance for DC to say "This is the definitive presentation of Captain Marvel, do not deviate from it".

The key point here would be that Billy is the true hero, and that being Captain Marvel just gives him to power to be an effective hero and change the world for the better, much the way King Arthur was always a noble man, but gaining the sword and the crown allowed him to create a land of heroes and justice.

Billy should be no younger than 12 and no older than 15, and he definitely shouldn't be naive. As someone who lost everything before he was 10 and had to survive on the mean streets for a couple of years on his own, Billy should be a brave, resourceful, streetsmart individual who never the less has held on to his sense of hope, justice and faith in humanity. He has a down to Earth attitude due to his living conditions, and he uses humor as a coping mechanism for when things get rough. Most of all tho, he's someone with a deep sense of compassion and empathy, he feels for other people and wants to help them, and people feel that sincerity whenever he does anything.

An idea I would put forward is that Billy actually has a little pirate radio opperation going, maintained by some of his more tech savvy friends in the homeless community, where he gives nightly or weekly broadcasts to the city, commentating on recent events, talking about his views, and trying to reveal some of the evils of people in the city like Sivana, and he ends every transmission with a little line about hope, and the reminder that only people can make a bad situation better. Even when homeless, Billy is trying to get to the truth and inspire people, the experience he gains here would pay off later, explaining how a young kid lands a job as a radio broadcaster, when the owner of WHIZ Broadcasting offers to make him a legitimate reporter. This would eventually move to Billy having a daily show and a weekly hour long broadcast on WHIZ TV in a 60 minutes style broadcast where he conducts interviews and talks about stories he's worked on.

As Captain Marvel, Billy is given the power to change the world and make things better, but he tempers that power with restraint. Like the recent Captain America film, Billy understands what it is like to be weak, he has respect for the power he has, and he has compassion for those less fortunate than himself. As such, he tries to solve problems diplomatically first, opting for violence only if talking doesn't work out. When violence is needed, he uses apropriate force, never going for the kill, but cracking jokes during the fight because superhero action is a bit of a relief for him, and is fun when facing genuine monsters. More over tho, Cap's presence is meant to give people hope and to inspire them to be better. His down to Earth attitude and friendly nature doesn't inspire revrent awe, but rather a comfort in normal people. Cap feels like "one of the guys", so he puts people at ease, and it adds resonence to his words because its coming from someone who truly understands them. Whereas a lot of people can't see past the mask with other superheroes, people see past the powers of Cap and see a man who wants to help them, and his actions inspire them in the way a normal person standing up to evil always has.

Captain Marvel does NOT come off as a little kid in an adults body. Billy is aware of what he looks like and what his responsibilities are when he's in this form, so he acts appropriately. He looks like someone in his late 20's/early 30's, and acts the way some adults do, as a friendly but professional and competent guy who still has a bit of childlike wonder and enthusiasim in what he does. He does not come off as naive, eager to please, or as a simpleton. He is the same resourceful, heroic Billy Batson, just with superpowers.


General Purpose: Captain Marvel's very nature allow hims a great deal of diversity, allowing him to do 'standard' superhero adventures, but also serve as one of the people on the first line of defense against mystic based threats. When the Sidhe Courts of Faery are getting ready to go to war, Cap steps in and handles things diplomatically. If a group of cultists try to bring some Lovecraftian Horror into the universe, Cap takes them down, and then beats the horror back to its inter-dimensional prison. If a Silent Hill type town starts to spread evil out into the rest of the world, Cap goes in and puts it back in its place.

At the same time, Cap is about lending hope to normal people, so while he deals with mystic threats, he also deals with normal supervillains, crime and the like. His mission statement is to defend the world from the Seven Deadly Enemies of Man and the people who willingly spread that kind of evil in the world, whether he does that defending as Cap or as Billy.

Something Cap also should do is be a humanitarian. He should remember every person he saves and every civilian or rescue worker he talks to. If someone he rescued wound up in the hospital during the rescue, Cap would go visit them the next day to make sure they're alright. If some little kid got separated from his parents during a supervillain brawl, Cap helps him find his folks. And if Cap stops a gang of crooks, he genuinely tries to help rehabilitate them.

One story I always wanted to see done was from the perspective of a young criminal whose gang is broken up when they commit a robbery. Cap gets them to surrender, promising to do what he can to help them. Only we then get to see that get put into action. Cap visits the criminal every week or so, talks to him, gets him involved in programs that could help him, speaks on his behalf at his parole hearing, and helps him get a job afterwards. And then we find out that Captain Marvel does this for a large portion of criminal population. Cap is here to help everyone overcome Evil, even those who have started to succumb to it. Fawcett City should have one of the lowest normal crime rates in the country because, for Cap, stopping crime doesn't end with putting a crook in jail, that's where it truly starts.
Last edited by Ares on Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:08 am

Ares Random Captain Marvel Thoughts, Part II

Powers and Abilities : Part of why the Power of Shazam can cause such temptation is because it makes its wielder essentially a god. Captain Marvel should be amongst the most powerful heroes in DC, a contemporary of Superman, virtually his equal in power, but without the magic weakness coming into play unless the Shazam bolt gets involved.

I use to be an advocate of Captain Marvel having a variety of new powers, like throwing lightning and the like. Now I think Cap works best as a classic flying brick without a whole lot of extras. It harkens back to the old mythology where Hercules was just a really strong guy, but often got creative with his strength in order to save the day. But at the same time, Cap should be the best example of a pure flying brick in comics, and his powers should reflect that. Here's how I'd break down his various abilities.

Wisdom of Solomon : The Wisdom functions as a magical database, allowing Cap to access information on history, supernatural lore, and be up to date on the mystical world. He knows the history of the Faery Courts, the structure of the Angelic Choir, and the classification of the Djin. He can also comprehend any spoken or written language, and can speak it in turn, even magically speaking languages humans aren't really designed to speak. The Wisdom also allows him to see through illusions if he focuses, and can be used to cast ritual magic spells if he has the right tools, which he can usually acquire quickly thanks to his Speed. The Wisdom also grants him the ability to detect and follow magical energies, and identify them.


Strength of Hercules : The Strength makes Cap one of the strongest beings in the DCU, able to hold his own against Superman or the strongest of the foes. The metaphysical aspect of this strength allows Cap to lift things so that they don't break under their own weight, much like Hercules once held up the sky.


Stamina of Atlas : The Stamina is the source of Cap's invulnerability, as well as his ability to opperate for days or weeks without tiring, and not need to eat, sleep or breath. Because of the mystical nature of this invulnerability, all of Cap is equally protected, so that his eyes or brain is no less durable than his skin.


Power of Zeus : The Power adds itself to his other abilities, reinforcing them and making them stronger if Cap pumps power into them. However, channeling the power is a tiring thing, and the more power he puts into those abilities, the more he exhausts himself past what even the Stamina of Atlas can account for. He could, for instance, amplify his strength to hit much harder, or to increase the metaphysical property so that he could grasp a normally intangible being such as a ghost. He could also amplify the Wisdom so that he could see invisible mystical beings, or amplify the Stamina to survive an attack that would have killed him or resist a power attempting to transform him into a different form, so on and so forth. However, the more he pushes that power, the more exhausted he will be, to the point of knocking himself out. When amplified by the Power, Cap's strikes carry the authority of Zeus, which basically allows him to affect all supernatural beings equally with his attacks. Beings who are normally not vulnerable to physical assault, or only vulnerable to certain things will feel Cap's punches normally.

Even without amplifying his abilities, the Power of Zeus acts to make Captain Marvel's 'brick tricks' more effective than a normal. He can precisely control the power of his handclaps so that the knock people off their feet, put out fires, or hit with such force that they level buildings and leave spherical craters in the ground. He can stomp on the ground and perfectly control the stomp so that a fissure will open up under an opponent. He can pick up an object and throw it, charging it with the power of Zeus so that the thrown object hits like it was Cap's fist. In essence, it allows Cap to perform all of the fun brick tricks from the 60's, 70's and 80's comics in a contemporary setting, with actual justification for it.

The Power also makes Cap's senses a bit sharper than a normal humans, though not as sharp as Superman's.


Courage of Achilles : The Courage grants Billy protection from supernatural effects that would adversely effect him, such as the madness caused by Lovecraftian horrors, the fear some dragons cause or the lust some Sidhe women can inspire. While Billy could resist these effects with his own willpower, the Courage means that he doesn't have to worry about it, and can instead focus on the task at hand without any distractions. No matter what foe Cap faces, he can do so with a clear mind and a level head, at least from the supernatural power they exude. He might still find a dragon scary looking, of a sidhe woman beautiful, but Billy can resist such things on his own merrits.

The Courage also gives Cap access to advanced combat skills, as well as the battlefield tactics of one of history's greatest warriors. When Cap combines this with the Wisdom, he often has several workable plans and all the information he needs to make an informed decision, but the final decision must be his.


Speed of Mercury : The Speed allows Cap the ability to move, fly and think at superhuman speeds. It also allows him to travel to realms such as the lands of Faery or Olympus at will, with the Messenger aspect of his power granting him the ability to find those locations with ease.


General/Others : The Power of Shazam is a type of supernatural badge of authority. Supernatural beings that look on Cap know what he is, know the power he represents, and treat him accordingly. It basically gives him authority to speak with gods, supernatural monarchs and entities as old as the planet.

The Rock of Eternity allows Cap access to places that might be off limits even with the Speed of Mercury, such as other times, alternate universes, etc.

Historama acts as way for Billy to keep up to date on supernatural threats. In essence, since the Rock is at the heart of existence, it can be used to scry anything. Billy would have Historama set to alert him to supernatural threats, and appear to him as a picture that only he can see to alert him to such threats, allowing him to slip away and deal with the crisis at hand.

The very mythic nature of the Power of Shazam means that people see Captain Marvel as the hero he is. In essence, Cap projects an aura that makes him seem more of who he is. Good/normal people get a generally good vibe from Cap, whil evil/bad people feel unease around him. This also means that people will not believe that Captain Marvel and Billy Batson are the same person unless they actually see the transformation with their own eyes, with the same being true for Mary Marvel or Captain Marvel Junior. If someone saw Mary Batson run into an alley, see a lightning strike and then see Mary Marvel come flying out, they wouldn't be able to put two and two together, thinking that Mary Marvel had just saved some girl from being struck by lightning. Likewise, if Captain Marvel Junior walked around in street clothes, people wouldn't wonder how Freddy Freeman can walk all of a sudden, they'd wonder what Captain Marvel Junior is doing in street clothes.

Due to the mystical nature of his power, Captain Marvel is more resistant to magical based effects than other heroes, for whom supernatural phenomena is more of a problem.

The Power of Shazam is within Billy, with the Shazam bolt acting as a trigger to cause it to turn on or off. However, the Shazam bolt itself can act as a potent weapon, containing the raw power of the Wizard. Normally, the Shazam bolt will seek to strike Billy or Cap, following them if need by, and since it comes from the Rock of Eternity, it can originate from within any point in existence. So if Billy was inside of a force field, the lightning would just originate from a point inside of the field. However, Cap/Billy can exert some control over the bolt so that it won't follow them, or even alter where the bolt will originate from, so that it will hit the spot Cap was standing when he called the word down, or so that the bolt will punch through the force field mentioned above.

As a type of 'utlimate attack' Cap can call down the Shazam bolt and catch it, amplifying its power with the Power of Zeus and then throwing it, but doing so would leave him extremely exhausted, as well as injured from holding onto the bolt. And if he doesn't catch it, it could return him to his mortal form.


Weaknesses : Cap has a few built in weaknesses due to his very nature.

First and foremost, Billy Batson is a more or less normal human being phsycially, and can be harmed by mundane means. However, it is virtually impossible to transform him back into Billy Batson after he's Captain Marvel, requiring the specific Shazam bolt to do so. As such, most of the drama with Billy is whether or not he will change, not if he can be changed back to normal.

Captain Marvel is vulnerable to effects that particularly target supernatural beings, or beings powered by the gods. If there was a weapon like the JLU Hawkgirl's mace, for instance, it would hurt Cap more than it would hurt Superman. Similarly, if there is a being whose powers work by draining the power of gods, or who is a 'god killer', then Cap would be more vulnerable to his effects.

Billy needs to be able to speak the word Shazam to cause the transformation, but due to the nature of the power of words, someone must be able to hear the word being spoken to cause the change. Usually, as long as Billy himself can hear the words coming out of his own mouth, he can cause the change. However, if he were in a really loud concert where he literally cannot hear his own voice, then no matter how many times he would say the word, the lightning won't come. However, if Billy were to learn sign language and 'speak' the word Shazam with hand gestures and he could see his hands, then the transformation would take place, because he's still 'saying' the word on a metaphysical level.


As Billy: Billy is a mostly normal human being, but the Power of Shazam inside of him gives him a few advantages.

For one thing, he can detect magic much like the Wisdom of Solomon allows, and he can determine if its 'good magic' or 'bad magic', though he lacks any finer sense of things and would have to transform to get a more accurate reading.

The Power also allows Billy to travel to mystical realms via methods most humans can't access. For instance, in Alice in Wonderland, Alice would have been the only person who could have gone through the rabbit hole to Wonderland, or gone through the looking glass, because she's got a sharper link to the superntural, enough to see the White Rabbit. Billy would similarly be able to make use of those two particular gateways to the magical realms if he needed to. In essence, Billy is able to find the mystical within the mundane.

Billy is offered a degree of protection from the retribution of certain supernatural beings. Most supernatural beings below the station of godlike beings don't know Billy's true identity. Most of those that do are bound by the pact the pantheons have formed with Shazam. In essence, if any supernatural being that knows Billy is the Champion of Shazam attempts to influence or corrupt Billy unfairly, then the rest of the gods are honor bound to punish said being. As such, it would be suicide for any god to try to visit retribution upon Billy outright, and as such must try and visit it upon Captain Marvel in a more 'fair' fashion. Furthermore, beings are prevented from simply telling others that Billy is a champion of Shazam, due to the magic of words. Shazam hears every time someone says his name, or the name of those linked to him, and revealing that secret will visit Shazam's wrath upon that being. As such, no one in the supernatural community that knows Billy is Captain Marvel goes around speaking of it lightly.

Lastly, Billy is amongst the most noble and pure beings who have ever lived. That purity, nobility and faith have a type of power all their own in supernatural circles.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:24 pm

Fine work Ares! :D
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:27 pm

Thanks Libra. Now, to get to something a little more relevant to the thread:

Captain Marvel and the rest of the Universe, Part II

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Continuing from where I left off, I bring you further examinations of Captain Marvel and the DC/Marvel CrossoVerse. As stated there, this version of Captain Marvel is more akin to Spider-Man and Ben Grimm, in that he's had team ups and encounters with most of the rest of the heroic community, owing to heroic nature, friendly attitude, and the fact that DC Editorial isn't keeping him benched like they do in the comics.

Captain America: Steve and Billy share a unique relationship, in that they’ve had two first meetings.

Chronologically, the pair first met in 1940’s, early in Captain America’s career when a mission to infiltrate a secret Nazi research lad that was full of giant armored mech suits. Captain America might not have survived the encounter if another Captain hadn’t burst through a wall and disabled the suits after a long, hard fought battle. When asked who he was, Captain Marvel simply smiled and said, “a friend” and departed quickly. This happened several more times during the next few weeks, with Captain Marvel appearing at sites of advanced Nazi technology, only to depart soon after. It was during one such instance that the Nazi’s were finally ready for Captain Marvel, using an ancient Babylonian artifact to sap most of his powers and might have killed him if Captain America hadn’t arrived to save him. After the fight was over, Captain Marvel was still too weak to leave, and thus Captain America finally managed to speak with him. Marvel decided to just come clean, going so far as to transform back to Billy Batson to allow his powers to recharge quicker while he explained things. It turns out that a villain from the future was supplying the Nazi’s with even more advanced technology, and Captain Marvel had journeyed into the past to specifically take down places with that advanced technology, while altering the timeline as little as possible. Steve agreed to keep Billy’s secret, and the two spoke long into the night, before Billy’s powers were regenerated. From that point on tho, the pair worked as a team for the extent of Captain Marvel’s stay in the past, including when the Third Reich created Captain Nazi to oppose them both. When Captain Marvel finally left for the future, Captain America had a new person to call friend.

The pair met for the second time during the early days of the modern Heroic Age, when the heroic community consisted mainly of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers and Spider-Man, all of whom were called to face an invasion from the time traveler Kang. During the encounter, Captain Marvel’s inexperience and enthusiasm caused him to make a mistake that almost proved disastrous, and afterwards found himself questioning if Shazam had made a mistake giving this kind of power to a kid. It was Captain America that approached Marvel and spoke with him, leaving the younger hero somewhat flustered at meeting a living legend. Steve, on the other hand, treated Billy like an old friend, even though he knew this was the first time they had technically spoken. He told Billy that he knew the kind of hero Billy would grow up to be, and that he’d be proud to serve alongside him. This little pep talk gave Billy the confidence to put his self doubts aside and never look at them again, and for the second time the two forged a fast friendship.

Steve and Billy are pretty much cut from the same cloth. Both were young men who understand what it’s like to be weak and helpless, and thus have empathy and compassion for everyone else. Both were chosen for their moral qualities to be given the power to change their fates. And both have used that power to become symbols of hope. The military lifestyle Steve has embraced has made him a bit more stern and serious than Billy’s more laid back and humorous attitude, but the two are very much brothers in arms. Billy’s more ‘retro’ attitude makes him someone Steve can talk to about a lot of things, and there’s a little malt shop in Fawcett that the two regularly visit together. Steve has even coached Billy in hand-to-hand combat so that the 16 year old can defend himself in his mortal form.


Dr. Strange: Stephen Strange isn’t the easiest person to get along with by virtue of his aloof nature, this sense that he always knows something he isn’t telling you, and his odd sense of humor. He never really gets along well with the Defenders, he scares a lot of the mystical community, and superheroes rarely know what to make of him. There’s only a relatively small group of people Stephen considers true friends, which include Spider-Man and Captain Marvel. The pairs sense of humor and acceptance of the bizarre, as well as their grounded personalities help Stephen actually relax and relate to them in ways he rarely can with other heroes. Given that both the Captain and the Doctor are the two foremost defenders against the supernatural (Dr. Fate’s periods of inactivity prevent him from being as prominent in this regard), the two are often the first the other calls when they find themselves needing allies. Billy also makes it a point to invite Stephen over for dinner and give him some more human contact, as the Doctor could easily just spend the rest of his life in his studies. Likewise, the two have a tradition of watching baseball games together, as its one bit of fandom they both follow.


Wonder Woman: Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel got off to a rocky start, as they were both each other’s first mistaken hero fight. Diana was still relatively new to world of men when she and Cap met, and Diana recognized that this person had the powers of her pantheon within him. Believing that the gods would not willingly empower someone else with such gifts, she came to the conclusion that Captain Marvel had stolen those powers, and attacked him. Billy defended himself, but it quickly became a stalemate, since his strength and more durability advantage was matched by Diana’s superior skill. Eventually, Cap was able to get her in a grapple, at which point he called down the Shazam lightning. When Diana awoke, she found herself in Billy Batson’s modest apartment, who offered her some soup and asked why she and Cap had been fighting. When she explained herself, Billy explained to her that Cap couldn’t possibly be a thief, and explained to her Cap’s backstory. When she asked how he could know that, he told her that he was Captain Marvel, and pointed down to reveal that he’d been standing on her lasso the entire time, and thus couldn’t have lied. The two talked for several hours after that and parted as friends.

Billy and Diana work together semi-regularly when mythical menaces pop up, though Cap actually isn’t the first person Diana will call for aid. Usually Diana will go to Thor or Hercules first, and then Captain Marvel if they can’t be reached or if more help is required. This is because that, at her core, Diana is a warrior, and she’s more comfortable around other warriors when it comes to battles of the gods. She tends to view Billy as a younger brother, a unique experience for someone raised on an island of only women. Billy admittedly had something of a crush on her, as most men do, but he’s since grown out of it, noting that the two are better off as friends, even if he wasn’t too young for her at the moment. That hasn’t stopped Diana from trying to set Billy up on a date with Wonder Girl (Cassy), or from Billy likewise trying to get Captain America and Diana to go out.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:28 pm

Captain Marvel and the rest of the Universe, Part III

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The Hulk: The Hulk’s first introduction to Captain Marvel was stereotypical of the Hulk’s first meetings with a lot of heroes, namely with him punching said hero in the face. In Cap’s case, it was after he had flown into the city the Hulk had been rampaging in, grabbed the Hulk and then flew the Jade Giant at superspeeds to the New Mexico desert. The Hulk then punched Cap in the face. Cap managed to dodge the next punch, but realized that not only was this very difficult (the Hulk is much faster and a much better brawler than people give him credit for), but that repeat dodges would just make the Hulk madder and stronger. So Cap blocked or just took the hits the Hulk sent at him, never fighting back and always keeping his trademark smile on his face, even after one eye started to swell shut. After a while the Hulk stopped, puzzled, and asked why the hero wasn’t fighting back. Cap explained that he didn’t want to fight Hulk, he just wanted to understand him. The Hulk replied that he just wanted to be left alone, and with a little help from Solomon, Cap got it. When the Hulk was around people, they were scared of him, they attacked him, and they got him angry. The Hulk didn’t WANT to be angry or hurt people, he just had a short temper and he only knew one way to respond to threats. If he was alone, no one would be scared of him or attack him, and he wouldn’t have to get angry. And even without Solomon, Billy could see that the Hulk was intensely lonely, and didn’t want to be alone either, not really. But being alone was better than being with people, if it meant he’d just wind up hurting them.

So when the Hulk found a nice mesa he could sit on and watch the desert, Cap sat down next to him and just watched the landscape as well. Neither of them said anything for a while, even if the Hulk did turn to look at some other part of the desert for a bit. Finally, the Hulk started talking to Cap, who replied in kind, never talking down to the Hulk like he was a dullard. Then Cap started telling the Hulk jokes. After the Hulk finally stopped laughing, Cap asked what the Hulk did for fun, and realized that the childlike creature didn’t really know how to have fun. So they played like the adult children they were, games of catch, tag, a bit of fun roughhousing, until hours later, an exhausted Hulk finally turned back into Bruce Banner.

Early on, Captain Marvel was actually one of the few heroes that got along better with the Hulk than he did Bruce Banner. Cap could sympathize with Banner’s plight, of never being able to lose control without becoming something he hated, but Cap felt that the Hulk was largely misunderstood, and that Banner’s efforts to destroy that part of him just made things worse. Eventually, Cap and Banner became friends as well, as Banner learned to accept that part of himself. The Hulk, by contrast, always enjoyed “Captain Capeman’s” company, and Cap became one of the go-to people when it was required to calm the Hulk down. It actually strained Billy and Dr. Strange’s friendship when the Doctor banished the Hulk to the Crossroads dimension that first time, and Billy did everything he could to see his friend returned home safely.


The Avengers: In this continuity, Captain Marvel served on the Avengers for a while, which was why he didn’t serve on the Justice League initially until the International League days. He came on shortly after Captain America formed his “Kooky Quartet” to give it some strength until the roster became more stabilized. He’s since been an off again/on again member, and is well respected within the group. He was often the one that played peace maker within the group, would check on how others were doing and talk to them about their problems, which has earned him no small amount of appreciation from the team.


The Fantastic Four: Captain Marvel and the Fantastic Four have had several adventures together, including times when Dr. Doom attempted to steal the Power of Shazam, or when Mr. Mind managed to take over Annihilus and almost conquered both the positive and anti-matter universes. Where Cap most finds himself being called in by the Four, though, is when they’re in need of a babysitter. After one adventure, the FF had to go off somewhere else, and asked if Cap wouldn’t mind babysitting the young Franklin Richards. Cap obliged, and being a kid himself knew exactly how to keep Franklin occupied. He’s since become one of the FF’s main babysitters, and often pals around with Johnny and Ben on adventures as well. He gets along well with Reed and Sue, but in some ways the two remind him of his own parents, which can make things awkward.


The X-Men: The X-Men are heroes Cap has teamed up with the least. This isn’t through any conscious effort on his part, there’s often just very little overlap in what the two groups do, save for the big mega events. One of the few times they have teamed up was when Captain Nazi and his Battle Axis attempted to kill the mutants, feeling them to be an impure aberration of the Aryan ideal. Mere days after the fight, WHIZ Broadcasting received hate mail directed at the Captain from anti-mutant groups, considering him a race traitor for defending them. Captain Marvel promptly appeared as a guest during one of Billy weekly television interview segments (using the Rock of Eternity and time travel to be in two places at once), and gave a scathing speech directed at anyone who harbored such racist ideals, culminating in how the anti-mutant groups were siding with NAZIS. Only the occasional bit of hate mail has come in since, and Captain Marvel has gone out of his way to be a mutants rights activist, as well as strive for racial equality of all kinds. As such, while the adventures he has with the X-Men tend to be rare, he’s a frequent visitor to Xavier’s School for the Gifted, talking with the younger students, chatting with Professor X and providing a positive example that both mutants and humans could follow.


The Defenders: Dr. Strange once hit upon the idea that Captain Marvel should join the Defenders. He figured the Captain’s presence would be a nice mitigating factor to the disagreeable natures of all of the usual members, since both Strange and the Hulk were friends with Cap, and both the Surfer and Namor respected him. So Cap accepted Stephen’s offer and tagged along with the Defenders for a single mission, and it was in fact one of the smoothest Defenders missions ever, with minimal bickering amongst the team and a general improvement in teamwork. When Strange asked Cap afterwards if he would consider joining the team, Cap politely but firmly declined, saying that the team was “WAY too high maintenance” for him. He revealed that it required near constant micro-managing from Cap to keep the group from constantly bickering with each other. Strange smiled and nodded, understanding that a team such as this could strain even Cap’s legendary patience, and that wasn’t really fair to the Captain. Instead, he asked that Cap be on call if the Defenders ever needed his help, and Billy agreed to that. Privately, when Billy spoke with Superman later, he commented that it was like “trying to babysit four ultra-powerful kids with attitude problems and no concept of how to get along”. It took Superman almost ten minutes to stop laughing.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:29 pm

I claim page 39 of this thread in the name of Captain Marvel. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:25 pm

Good for you and good for the Cap'n! :mrgreen:

Have you given any thought to revamping the Marvel Family Rogues Gallery as well?
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:57 pm

Libra wrote:Good for you and good for the Cap'n! :mrgreen:

Have you given any thought to revamping the Marvel Family Rogues Gallery as well?
Certainly, though I don't really need to do so for Dr. Sivana or Black Adam, as you guys have already done fantastic write ups as well.

The only thing I'd add to Sivana is a reason why he doesn't just hit Billy Batson's home from orbit with some space-based mega-laser or something similar is because Sivana doesn't view Captain Marvel and Billy Batson as being the same person. The world's greatest genius defeated by someone with the mind of a child? Inconceivable! So he sees Billy Batson as someone who summons or trades places with Cap, rather than being Cap himself. Thusly, while he might incapacitate Billy in order to set off an evil scheme of his, he won't ever kill Billy because a triumph over Billy Batson is meaningless to Sivana. Sivana wants to defeat Captain Marvel, publicly humiliate him and make the whole world acknowledge that he's the superior genius and that "good is dumb". Not only is Billy aware of this, he has exploited it several times in the past.

Other Marvel Family villains would be easy enough to write up, especially the versions done for this sort of merged setting. I'll probably make them the subject of my next post. Hopefully that'll encourage other people to get to posting before I turn this into a Captain Marvel thread. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by MightyDavidson » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:20 am

Ares wrote:If that bit proves popular, I might expand it to include other heroes, and maybe even take requests. :mrgreen:
Ok, I know I'm chiming in WAY late here but I'd like to know how Captain Marvel gets along with Power Pack. Also, I'm wondering which Marvel heroes Captain Marvel has fought and if there are any that could be considered part of his rogue's gallery?

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:09 pm

Other Marvel Family villains would be easy enough to write up, especially the versions done for this sort of merged setting. I'll probably make them the subject of my next post.
Excellent. :mrgreen:

I confess that I've been trying to work up the courage (and concentration) to do what you have done, but as you may have noted my attempt to give Green Arrow a spring-cleaning faltered just a bit right out of the starting gate ...
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:45 am

Captain Marvel's Rogues Gallery I

At Libra's request, I thought I'd take a stab at some of Cap's rogues, both traditional and in the combined MU/DCU. As Dr. Sivana and Black Adam have been taken care of already, let me go with some others:

Mr. Mind: Mr. Mind is indeed a small psionic worm from the planet Venus hear to conquer the world, with a little universal translator around his neck so that everyone will comprehend what he's saying. And as humorous as that might sound, it isn't very funny. Firstly, he sports the more modern look. Secondly, well, you have to understand that Mr. Mind doesn't see people as people. He comes from a race of beings with advanced technology, mental powers, and absolutely no concept of the worth of the individual. All of them were linked via a type of hive mind, and saw the rest of the universe as essentially resources to exploit. Other beings were either oddities to be experimented on, or meat puppets to ride around in. Virtually all of this species was destroyed when Captain Marvel was forced to re-route their transporter beam into deep space, killing all of Mr. Mind's 'apendages'/'brothers', leaving him the sole survivor of his people. As such, Mr. Mind is not only incapable of empathizing with humanity, he actively hates humanity, and the only reason he doesn't want to destroy us is so that he can enslave us, transform us into something more appealing, and then use us to rebuild his empire. He's the kind of thing H.P. Lovecraft would write about, a mad alien who refuses to acknowledge an individuals worth, a geneticist that rivals Arnim Zola and the High Evolutionary, and who packs intense psychic powers that are limited only by range. That he does all this with a childish glee and a mad cackle is why he and Dr. Sivana get along so well. They both know they're going to betray each other down the line, but they might as well have fun before it comes to that.

Captain Nazi and the Fourth Reich: Captain Nazi was created back when Captain Marvel was time traveling in the past, working with Captain America to stop a secret shipment of advanced technology from the future to Nazi Germany. The two men together gave the Nazi high command the idea of combining the two, using super science to create a German super soldier, but one with powers to rival Captain Marvel rather than Captain America. Using some of that advanced technology, Arnim Zola was able to combine some of Baron Zemo's early Ionic Process ideas with Asgardian DNA they'd obtained, and transform a young Albrecht Krieger into Captain Nazi, a evil powerhouse roughly on par with the likes of Wonder Man, possessing great strength, near invulnerability, flight and speed, but lacking many other aspects of the Ionic process, such as the near immortality, and still needing to eat and breath. Captain Nazi proved a formidable foe during the World War II era to groups like the All-Star Squadron and Invaders, loyaly serving under Hitler, though he and the Red Skull never got along. Eventually Captain Nazi was placed in suspended animation with a group of other Nazi super soldiers, who were suppose to be awakened when a similarly preserved Hitler awoke and lead a new uprising. Instead, they were awoken in the modern age by a group of Neo-Nazis, learning that the Reich had fallen, with the Red Skull having discarded Nazi ideas of superiority in favor of his own superiorty. Captain Nazi has taken up the ideals and formed the Fourth Reich, composed of both the older German supervillains and whatever new supervillains will ally with him, becoming a foe of the Marvel Family, the JSA and the Avengers. The Fourth Reich includes the classic Baron Blitzkrieg, Kung-Assassin of 1,000 Claws, and others.

King Kull: Along with Vandal Savage, King Kull is one of the oldest beings on the planet, and like Savage, he owes his origins to alien intervention. When the Celestials first came to Earth and started messing with human genetics, they created three offshoots of humanity: The Eternals, the Deviants and the Beastmen. The Beastmen were actually the first created, being simply an augmented version of humanity, allowed for greater size and strength, stronger survival instincts, greatly reduced aging, and so forth. The Deviants were then an effort to test the sheer variety that could be created, while the Eternals were an idealized, 'perfected' humanity. The Beastmen were initially the most numerous of the groups, as well as the most cruel, as the Celestials had augmented the 'survival' portions of the human psyche at the cost of morality, making them obsessed with hunting, killing, conqueroring and the like. The Beastmen swiftly used their physical advantages, as well as a working knowledge of some Celestial technology, to conquer most of the world. It required an alliance of humans, Deviants and Eternals to defeat the Beastmen, until only their king, Kull the Cruel, was left. Hiding himself in a chamber based on Celestial technology, Kull went into a deep hybernation while the machine further improved his body, giving him physical might comparable to that of an Eternal warrior. However, the machine malfunctioned, and Kull slept far longer than he had intended. He was awakened in the modern era by a group of scientists, and swiftly set about conquering this new world as well. Kull is comparable to Hercules physically, as well as in terms of skill, only he arms himself with advanced weapons designed to mimic old style 'barbarian' weaponry, wielding an axe that has a blade that emits cosmic energy and so forth. His technology is a strange bastardization of Celestial tech that has allowed him to come very close to killing off humanity. He's almost what you'd get if you gave Kalibak a genius level IQ, got rid of the daddy issues and kept the bloodthirsty disposition.

Mr. Atom: Mr. Atom is the original giant atomic robot, developed in the 50's when atomic energy was thought to be the solver of all the world's energy issues. A reclusive scientist began working on Mr. Atom, designing an advanced artificial intelligence, a nearly indestructible body, and a compact reactor that could power a country. When first activated, the resulting energy backlash killed the scientist, leaving Mr. Atom free to examine the world by himself. He deduced from his observations of humanity that he was superior to them in virtually every way, and that they lived chaotic, wasteful lives. As such, he was the best qualified to organize their society into something more meaningful, orderly, and logical. Those that accepted his rule would be considered as having either the necessarry intelligence or survival instinctics to be allowed to live. Those that did not would be considered 'flawed', and thus destroyed. He demonstrated this by slaughtering most of the military sent to contain him. Luckily, the original Human Torch was still around, and held Mr. Atom off until Howard Stark was able to shut him down. Unable to disassemble the robot without fear of the reactor destroying everything around it, Mr. Atom was instead kept in storage and analyzed as best they could. Ultron later based much of his advanced body off of Mr. Atom's designs. Dr. Sivana eventually woke Mr. Atom up to use as a weapon against Captain Marvel, and the World's Mightiest Mortal has been put to the test every time he's faced the mighty metal menace. Mr. Atom is willing to work with advanced intellects such as Mr. Mind, Dr. Sivana, Dr. Doom and Ultron on a temporary basis, seeing them as intellectual peers who can help advance his goals, but who might need to be destroyed should they not submit to his eventual, ordered society. He and Ultron actually have something of a Big Brother/Little Brother relationship, though Mr. Atom often tries to get Ultron to purge himself of his 'irrational emotions'.

Mr. Mind's Ani-Men: The Ani-Men are an example of just how twisted Mr. Mind is. In his own hidden labratory, he's created his own island of Doctor Moreau, filled with a society of creatures that range from animal/human hybrids to genetic monsters that would give H. R. Giger nightmares. And the term 'monster' is an apt one, because there is nothing truly redeemable about these creatures. Mr. Mind has mixed a little of his own DNA into each construct, not only making it so that he can control them from a far distance with his powers, but also make them more like him. Whether they have the intelligence of animals or a genius to rival his own, each and every one of these monsters despises humanity, lacking any and all compassion, even for each other. The one law of their society is perfect obedience to Mr. Mind. He has made a group of creatures that are incapable of deciding their own fate, forcing upon them his own way of thinking, taking away any empathy or morality other than his own. They are not only a force of creatures that threaten humanity, but a bleak preview of what Mr. Mind will do to the world if not stopped.


More to come soon!
Last edited by Ares on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:21 pm

Captain Marvel's Rogues Gallery II

Continuing the thread of Captain Marvel's rogues, I've included some additional villains he winds up fighting pretty regularly from Marvel as well. I don't include guys like Dr. Doom or Magneto, since while Cap has fought them both, Doom especially, those guys are pretty much villains of the entire world, so it isn't really anything 'special' to face off against them.

Oggar: The World's Mightiest Immortal was once a fellow practicioner of magic alongside his friend the wizard Shazam, and in fact had been a potential canidate to be part of the new Shazam spell. Unfortunately, Oggar's greed and pride led him to form an alliance with the sorcereress Circe in an attempt to steal the Power of Shazam for themselves. However, Shazam proved too much for the both of them, and with the aid of the gods banished them to separate islands to minimize their mischief. Circe, unable to strike back against Shazam or the gods, tried to curse Oggar into an animal form, but his own magicreduced that curse to him simply having goat legs, like a saytr. Oggar took to wearing long robes afterwards, and also found out that due to his magic having to almost constantly war with Circe's curse that his spells could no longer directly affect women. Eventually Oggar was able to break the spell binding him to his island, partially due to his magics becoming so powerful, partially due to the wizard Shazam passing from the mortal world to permanently guard the Rock of Eternity. Oggar set out to find the current wielder of Shazam's power, only to find a superhero instead of a wizard. Since that initial fight, Oggar has constantly sought to gain revenge against the Wizard Shazam, Captain Marvel and Circe, as well as increase his own mystical power so that he might eventually supplant the Wizard as the rightful master of the Rock of Eternity. This has also put Oggar in conflict with other mystical powerhouses such as Dr. Strange and Dr. Fate.

Ibac: Ibac was something of a prototype for the Lords of Hell to create their very own 'Shazam'. When a smalltime crook named Stanley "Stinky" Printwhistle offered to sell his soul in order to be a big shot criminal by defeating Captain Marvel, the Lords of Hell saw their chance. They gave Stanley the abilities of several Hell bound souls (Ivan the Terrible, Cesare Borgia, Attila the Hun, and Caligula) whose innate evil also granted Ibac superhuman strength, durability and warrior skills, all by speaking the word "Ibac". Ibac's own personality was basically an amalgamation of his evil 'doners' and the worst of Stanley's soul, making him a menace that Captain Marvel worked to defeat. However, after dealing with him, Cap played a role in helping Stanley reform, and the former criminal swore to never again bother the Captain. And since Captain Marvel remains undefeated, Stanley has kept his soul. However, various individuals or simple chance keep conspiring to change Stanley back into Ibac, only for Captain Marvel to again try and defeat this opponent without harming him too badly.

Sabbac: If Ibac was the prototype, Sabbac was the final product, as the young Timothy Karnes was gifted with the powers of the demons Satan, Any, Belial, Beelzebub, Asmodeus, and Crateis. By speaking the word "Sabbac", he was transformed into a hulking, demonic form and given not only physical powers to match a Shazam wielder, but power over Hellfire as well. Unlike Ibac, Karnes kept his own personality, but since that personality was of a anarchist satanist and occultist who wanted to see the world burn, he was all too happy to follow the lead of his demonic masters and attempt to bring chaos and misery to the world. Sabbac has fought each of the Marvels separately, along with other heroes, and while he's never been successful yet, it isn't through a lack of trying.

Loki: Loki turned his attention to Captain Marvel after witnessing his brother Thor team up with the Scion of Shazam, deciding that this straight laced hero would be easy pickings. Instead, he's found that Cap's good nature, sense of humor and acceptance of the bizarre meant that Cap found most of Loki's pranks "amusing" at best, and just another supervillain scheme to thwart at worst. Mister Mxyzptlk, a sometime partner of Loki's, pointed out that it was futile to try and get Cap's goat in this manner. The one time Myx had tried to mess with Cap, the 5-D imp got so frustrated that he swore off the World's Mightiest Mortal forever and decided to stick to harassing Superman. Loki hasn't taken this advice yet, and still schemes and plots against the Captain, which amuses Thor to no end.

Mephisto: The innate purity of Captain Marvel's soul has made it highly prized amongst the ruling elite of Hell. Neron once brought Hell to Earth in an attempt to claim it, only to fail in the end. Mephisto had been trying to get his hand on Cap's soul before and after, and could have told Neron how difficult it would prove. The purity of Cap's soul is only part of the problem, the divine nature of his very powers makes him a dangerous foe for the demon lord, and the authority his role as Champion of Shazam gives him options other heroes lack. Still, Mephisto plots and schemes, certain that one day, Marvel's soul will be his.

Annihilus: Cap has found himself in a rather difficult position when it comes to Mr. Mind and Annihilus. He first had to actually free Annihilus from Mr. Mind when the alien worm took over the Living Death that Walk's body, only to have to defend Mr. Mind from Annihilus' retaliatory strike a few days later. Since then, Cap has had to oppose Annihilus on more than one occassion, the Rock of Eternity and his own mystical nature allowing him to freely travel back and forth between the Negative Zone to freely battle the despot.

Diablo: The alchemist Diablo has long sought mystical artifacts to enhance his power, and Captain Marvel makes it his job to keep such things out of the hands of men like Diablo. As a result, Cap has had to face down Diablo's wide assortment of elementals and alchemical tricks, and in an unfortunate twist as has actually wound up making Diablo more dangerous as the villain has stepped up his game to combat the World's Mightiest Mortal.

Fing Fang Foom: Captain Marvel and fighting giant monsters just goes hand in hand, so when this alien dragon starts rampaging, Cap makes it a point to take him down.

The Sphinx: The Sphinx was an old foe of Shazam's during his time as the Champion, and later fought Black Adam when Adam was still a hero. The Sphinx kept a low profile for thousands of years after, partially because he knew Shazam was watching, and waited until a new champion was chosen, so that he might be able to obtain the power/information he desired from a less experienced hero. When that failed due to the defeat Cap handed him, the Sphinx attempted to obtain similar power and knowledge from the hero Nova. Since then, the Marvel Family, the New Warriors and Nova have all taken turns thwarting whatever scheme the Sphinx is up to at the moment.

Apocalypse: Captain Marvel is finding that an increasingly large part of his duties is to pick up fighting the evils that Shazam and Black Adam started fighting back in the day. Case in point, Apocalypse was another villain Black Adam had to contend with, though Apocalypse's "Survival of the Fittest" mentality held some appeal to Adam, even then. Since Apocalypse's return, however, Cap has had to face the villain down, especially when Apocalypse forcibly turned Black Adam into the new 'War'.

The Juggernaut: The Juggernaut and Cap wind up fighting a great deal for two reasons. One is a difference in ideology, namely that the Juggernaut is essentially a bully, and Cap doesn't like bullies. The second is that the Juggernaut is one of the few villains that does mercenary work who is powerful enough to go toe to toe with Captain Marvel. So whenever something goes down in Fawcett city and the villains in question need someone who might have a chance of keeping Cap occupied, the Juggernaut is usually the one they call. This ironically means that a sizable amount of the Juggernaut's income comes from Fawcett City, which he's actually taken a liking to, and has even defended from 'worse' supervillains that have threatened it on occassion. Captain Marvel also wound up getting involved in the Exemplars incident, both the initial battle and the Avengers team up that followed.

Mojo: Part of Cap's duties as Champion of the Rock of Eternity is to defend the world from interdimensional threats. Mojo's shinanigans are more annoying than threatening, but still Cap's wound up having to face the dimensional dictator when he's kidnapped people from Earth or any number of similar plots from him. Cap has unfortunately proven a very popular to the Mojo-verse audience, and has wound up becoming a 'guest star' on the shows several times.

Dracula: Dracula is just one of those supernatural badies that is like a cockroach, never seeming to stay gone no matter how many times the heroes of Earth put him down. Dr. Strange, Blade, Captain Marvel and other heroes have worked tirelessly to defeat the monster, only for him to rise up time and time again. It's no mystery then that Captain Marvel wound up giving his friend Captain Britain a hand when Dracula launched his latest invasion of Earth.

Dormammu: As stated before, Cap is both a friend of Dr. Strange and someone who spends a great deal of time defending against interdimensional threats. As such, he's butted heads with Dormammu several times, whether with Strange, with the Marvel Family, or by himself, and so far good has triumphed in those instances, but often just barely.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:33 pm

MightyDavidson wrote:
Ares wrote:If that bit proves popular, I might expand it to include other heroes, and maybe even take requests. :mrgreen:
Ok, I know I'm chiming in WAY late here but I'd like to know how Captain Marvel gets along with Power Pack. Also, I'm wondering which Marvel heroes Captain Marvel has fought and if there are any that could be considered part of his rogue's gallery?
Power Pack is probably a group Cap's teamed up with, but not as frequently as other heroes, given how Power Pack isn't really all that active and keeps a somewhat low profile. When they have teamed up, Cap's always treated them with respect and the Pack find him very easy to get along with. This actually causes some confusion for the kids tho, as they can't figure out why they can get along so well with an adult like he was someone their own age. Cap of course, simply grins.

As for which heroes Cap has fought, in the Mighty Marvel tradition he's had throw downs with pretty much all of the big guns at one time or another, much like in the DCU. Thor, Hercules, the Hulk, the Silver Surfer, Namor, Wonder Man, Gladiator, Black Bolt, even entire rosters of the X-Men have gone up against Cap at various points, whether due to misunderstandings, mind control or simply being on opposing sides of an incident. However, none of them have ended on such a note that they'd be considered part of his rogues gallery. Really, you have to try very hard to not get along with Cap, so his only rogues are out and out supervillains. Even guys like Wolverine can get along with him just fine, so you'd need someone like Lobo for Cap to consider you an out and out villain.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by MightyDavidson » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:43 pm

And little does Alex Power know that Captain Marvel and his IM chat friend Billy Batson are one in the same! :lol:

Out of curiousity how many versions of the Monster Society of Evil have their been in this universe and how many times has Cap had to call in help to defeat them?

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:07 am

MightyDavidson wrote:And little does Alex Power know that Captain Marvel and his IM chat friend Billy Batson are one in the same! :lol:
Heh, that works for me.

Alex: "Srriously Billy, u have NO idea how annoying having a superpowered family can be."

Billy: "LOL."
Out of curiousity how many versions of the Monster Society of Evil have their been in this universe and how many times has Cap had to call in help to defeat them?
My take on the Monster Society in this setting would be that it's Mr. Mind's collection of genetically advanced monsters, animal men and so forth, explaining the kind of half-men/half-animal villains we'd see in the classic Captain Marvel books, rather than a supervillain team of Captain Marvel's foes. I might change my mind later, but I think this works better for the "Monster Society" concept.

When Captain Marvels foes have teamed up in the past, it would probably be a less formal thing than an official team, or I might decide that Mr. Mind formed the "Secret Society of Supervillains", while the traditional SSoS of the DCU would be the Legion of Doom, who in this universe were organized by Dr. Doom himself. It's something up in the air at the moment.

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