Quick draw?

[Unbeliever]

Is there any way to make this advantage worth getting? Right now it has, as far as I can tell, no use. But, if I were to require, say everyone with an arsenal or utility belt array to take a move action to switch their gear, then Quick Draw would be ubiquitous. And, that just amounts to a 1 point tax on all such concepts.

Any ideas or house rules?

This is motivated by my work on a high magic/high tech set of rules for M&M 3E -- stuff inspired by action-adventure games like Rifts or things like Vampire Hunter D. You know the drill. I'll get around to posting it when I get around to finishing it. Since I don't expect to be using it anytime soon, it goes on the back burner a lot. But, arsenal type of arrays will be very common there, and I'm just curious if I should excise this advantage or if there's a niche for it somewhere.

[poodle]

I really like quickdraw, mainly because I use equipment more than powers and I favour weapons with variable ammo types like shotguns and grenade launchers. I also don't like my characters walking around with a gun out. Also it is useful for things like throwing knives or switching weapons. Idon't like losing a move action to change ammo or having to spend an hp for an extra action. I know that it is primarily for equipment but it is also applicable to devices as well.

[Unbeliever]

Aren't you reading in a whole lot of readying weapon rules that aren't in the game, though? There's no rule saying that you have to spend a move action to switch through the various pieces of your utility belt, for instance. Why would it be the case to do with an arsenal? I see no mention of it in the DCA Hero's Handbook equipment chapter.

Or, are you saying such a rule either does (or should) exist, it's just not spelled out? If that's the case, though, then you run into the problem I mentioned earlier: everyone with an arsenal/utility belt will have quick draw. It's worth noting that Batman, Robin, and Nightwing all have the advantage, although I still find its usefulness mysterious.

[Negatronic]

To initially produce a stowed item in combat consumes a move action. Quick draw makes it a free action. That makes it pretty useful if you want to run across a rooftop, draw your batarang, and throw it all in the same go. After that, swapping out devices from your utility belt or equipment array can be done as a free action once per turn.

[Murkglow]

Quick Draw is more an artifact from previous editions of the game (and from it's more D&D influenced roots). As you say, it's not really required by the game to "draw" a weapon nor spend a move to switch between them.

[FuzzyBoots]

In 2E, it's made clear that it requires a Move action to draw out a weapon. I don't know if they keep that for 3E, of course. Drawing for arsenals, Steve Kenson clarified that it's a free action to switch items in the equipment array. Personally, I'm playing with it being a move action to switch items in the equipment array as a counter to the fact that disarming one device doesn't disarm all of them (there's also the option of a "multi-gun" which switches modes as a free action but requires only one disarm or sunder to take it all out). Quick Draw lets you do that first draw as a free action.

I personally think that there's some utility in the feat if you enforce the idea that people who walk through town brandishing weapons (or keeping a highly visible flame aura/force field up), people are going to look at them funny.

[Murkglow]

My problem with requiring weapons to be "drawn" is again it gives a player a benefit to describing their character a certain way over another player who gets the ame effect but describes it differently. Say player A has a Raygun while player B has an Energy Visor (kinda like Cyclops). Both can choose to build them the same way even down to both being easily removeable (the visor guy can choose to have his visor be knocked off with a disarm for example) yet Raygun guy needs to draw his weapon while visor man has his "ready" all the time? It's just not acceptable to me (much like your reference to arrays not all being disarmed at once, that's one 2e answer that I will never agree to for much the same reason... Well that and it leads to just more broken aspects and really solves no mechanical problems). I would much rather have Quick Draw be a useless feat then have descriptor min-maxing getting a boost.

[Saltcrow]

Yeah, I consider Quick Draw as a more of a flavour-oriented advantage than anything of real benefit. "Draw a new weapon from its holster" is just swapping between alternate effects most of the time so it ain't going to take a move action to do so. Something to differentiate between real martial artists/gunslingers and some other (more power-oriented perhaps) dude with decent Fighting.

[FuzzyBoots]

My problem with requiring weapons to be "drawn" is again it gives a player a benefit to describing their character a certain way over another player who gets the ame effect but describes it differently. Say player A has a Raygun while player B has an Energy Visor (kinda like Cyclops). Both can choose to build them the same way even down to both being easily removeable (the visor guy can choose to have his visor be knocked off with a disarm for example) yet Raygun guy needs to draw his weapon while visor man has his "ready" all the time? It's just not acceptable to me (much like your reference to arrays not all being disarmed at once, that's one 2e answer that I will never agree to for much the same reason... Well that and it leads to just more broken aspects and really solves no mechanical problems). I would much rather have Quick Draw be a useless feat then have descriptor min-maxing getting a boost.

To me, it's building on descriptors. Take the Energy Visor guy. He's effectively brandishing a weapon at all times (and if it's a "hidden" weapon, he should be paying for it with at least a rank of Subtle) and people should react in that manner. If it's not always "drawn" and ready for action, well, we have the same situation of requiring a Move action to put it on.

Back in 1E, Gimmick's Gadgets started putting together a system for charging for less obvious and smaller devices so that someone who built their Hard to Lose Device as an easily palmable ring actually paid a bit more than someone who wore an obvious bodysuit. While I'm not necessarily looking to start charging points for such things, I think there's a need to balance things out by including the implied descriptors as having an effect.

[Murkglow]

Take the Energy Visor guy. He's effectively brandishing a weapon at all times (and if it's a "hidden" weapon, he should be paying for it with at least a rank of Subtle) and people should react in that manner.

He has something over his eyes at all times, I doubt most normal people would think it's a weapon though. Kinda like the scene in X-Men where Cyclops is in the train station and Toad pulls his visor off, no one was worried he was "brandishing" a weapon, in fact a kid liked him (I think the kids mom didn't like him but then that's because he looks like a goof, she wasn't afraid he was about to shoot someone). No police/guards were hasseling him about his "obvious weapon" ect... Or are we saying Cyclops's visor needs a rank in subtle? Not really buying it. People "notice" it just fine, whether they know what it does or not is the question.

[Greyman]

Quick Draw is more an artifact from previous editions of the game (and from it's more D&D influenced roots). As you say, it's not really required by the game to "draw" a weapon nor spend a move to switch between them.

Actually, it explicitly requires a Move Action to do things like stand up, draw a weapon, or manipulate objects. Ref: Move Action, page 16, and pages 183-184.

[Murkglow]

Yes but there is never a point where a weapon is "undrawn" unless you make it happen/your GM specifically ambushes you. And once you get that first "drawn" weapon every other weapon you draw (and pervious weapon you put away) is a free action thanks to arrays. It's a really unworkable system and why I personally think it's an artifact that's simply still around because no one bothered to remove it.

[King Snarf]

That's when the GM whips out the Out of Ammo complication or something similar and oh, gee, there's no speed-loading advantage in M&M. That's a shame.

[King Snarf]

Seriously, though, if a player is abusing the Quick Draw advantage, you have a few options. House rule how long it takes to switch equipment. You can talk with the player, see if he can't try some new tricks. Failing that, throw complications or other things at him. Reward him or her with hero points, by force their hand into trying something new. Try a Nemean Lion type opponent. Invulnerable to weapons (and gadgets and smoke bombs and such) but not to good ol' fashioned fisticuffs.

Also, ask yourself, is the player's use of this advantage REALLY disrupting the game? If the PC is single-handedly winning every combat thanks to the Quick Draw and keeping the other players from having a moment, then use one of the tactics above. Otherwise, let him or her have their fun.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Say player A has a Raygun while player B has an Energy Visor (kinda like Cyclops). Both can choose to build them the same way even down to both being easily removeable (the visor guy can choose to have his visor be knocked off with a disarm for example) yet Raygun guy needs to draw his weapon while visor man has his "ready" all the time?

Wouldn't this be modeled by having Quick Draw as a part of the Device?

I could actually see "readying" a weapon like a visor as having to switch off the safety or otherwise switch it from one mode to another (most portrayals of Cyclopes I've seen he touches his visor to shoot, and think I remember reading one thing that mentioned he had to adjust it's aperture before he could use it in combat).