Ok, so I'm sure this is a topic that's been discussed many times before, but after looking I can't seem to find anything pertaining to it.
I'm playing in a group of 4 people one of which has the 30 point immunity Immunity Will. No problems for the most part untill our 3 session into the game when a nullify character comes to the group, wanting to kick our butts, goes to nullify the group and the immunity will save character becomes insistant and near belligerent about how his immunity will makes him flat out immune to anything that is both mental and will saving throw.
Our debate spawns from the first line of immunity. "You are immune to certain effects, automatically succeeding on any saving throws or ability checks against them"
Nullify as a power states - " You can counter a target's powers (see Countering powers, page 70). Make a ranged attack roll to hit the target. Then make an opposed power check of your nullify rank and the target power's rank or the target's will save, whichever is higher.
His argument goes thusly - When nullify gets used, I get to use whatever is the higher benefit. Since immunity will gives me effectively whatever the DC is that I need to roll, It's higher than my power check, so it doesn't get nullified. Since my other powers are lower than my will save, I get to use my will save which I'm immune to.
This argument is called Spirit of the game.
My personal argument was if your power has a rank of 15 and your will save is 2, 15 is higher than 2 and therefor your power gets nullified if it can't beat the dc. I point out that immunity, I assume, is like no saving throw (UP) where you still have to make a roll, but your assumed to have passed the roll regardless of what is actually gotten, not that immunity gives you a + whatever is necessary to pass.
This argument is called spirit of the rules.
I am a little confused on nullify as well. Can nullify shut off powers that are permanent? For instance, can nullify shut off immunity to will?
As far as I know the enemy was 12th lvl with rank 40 of the 3 point per rank nullify with a teammate that was about 5 levels lower than us and just waiting to kick out butts. Also, if you have the 3/rank nullify, does it shut off BAB or feats?
And one more question, when you use nullify, does the DC just equal the rank in nullify, or is the DC a d20 + nullify rank vs d20 + Whatever they are using to save?
Any/all help pertaining to this topic is generally welcomed and loved. I just want to know what the rules say is supposed to happen as opposed to what is happening.
So what is it? Spirit of the game, or spirit of the rules.